Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

[David E. Wells]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

Remember that Dago threw a rod BIG TIME on take-off After winning the Gold race, going out to attempt a 500mph lap...had the RACE gone ONE MORE LAP what would have happened?...D.

[grampi]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

Remember that Dago threw a rod BIG TIME on take-off After winning the Gold race, going out to attempt a 500mph lap...had the RACE gone ONE MORE LAP what would have happened?...D.

These engines are making so much power they can break anytime (and that includes the round motors as well).

[Mluvara]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

I won't question that but I would question.... could Skip have used it and kept the engine healthy?

Over the past years of Dago's wins, haven't we had engines come in from the race that, had that race been a lap longer, would, in all likelihood, not have been running when she landed?

PLEASE don't think I'm trashing what you're saying! I just know we're squeezing a hell of a lot more HP per SQ inch out of the Merlin than we ever will have to from the 3350...

September Pops being in the mix as well.. and we don't know what they can eventually pull out of their hat.. The big question in my mind is, with the dollars in the bank on the radial side today, will the Merlin guys be able to successfully get the power needed to keep up with teams with enough bux to have a LOT more cubic inches and have QEC's in the bank come Sunday?

JUSSSSST when you think this sport *could* become a "warbird parade".. the plot thickens!

Gotta love it!!!

Certainly valid points. Merlins are being run much harder in comparison to the 3350's. However, there have been a lot of aircraft that have run at higher power settings than Dago and lived for the duration of race week.

With any engine being run above their respective design power levels, it's the question of WHEN they are going to blow, not IF. The merlin's fuse is quite short.

I may have misread some of the varied comments here, but I wanted to be clear that running the 3k record vs flying on the course are two different things and will not equate the same speed. Going after the 3k record is a major undertaking and we'll see if anyone challenges it in the future. But, my main point is that 2003 was the fastest race ever on record. Until then, no aircraft had sustained those speeds for that long of a duration. No doubt there are a few aircraft capable of 500. Maybe we'll see it again this year?

Michael

[First time Juke]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

....snip..... 3k record vs flying on the course are two different things and will not equate the same speed. Going after the 3k record is a major undertaking and we'll see if anyone challenges it in the future. But, my main point is that 2003 was the fastest race ever on record. Until then, no aircraft had sustained those speeds for that long of a duration..........snip......

I recall the plane can speed up diving before the measured 3K distance each way. I read this from the AR 5 records in the web while I studied the info for my own super lite AC. I wonder how much more speed that actually can deliver in 3K....not much 10 mph max.

[Red]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

I recall the plane can speed up diving before the measured 3K distance each way. I read this from the AR 5 records in the web while I studied the info for my own super lite AC. I wonder how much more speed that actually can deliver in 3K....not much 10 mph max.

I'm sure Mike can clarify the details, but I know you have to be level before and after the traps for a certain distance as well as an altitude limit on the turn around.

[Arctic Cat]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

From this thread http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/showt...ght=3km+record

Gary,
It is important to note the requirements of a record compared to stating or documenting a particular speed.
The most stringent of these, the 3KM record requires 6 consecutive passes to be made over a measured course with a very strict altitude variance rule. Altitude recording graphs are carried in the plane during the record to verify that the rules are followed. In addition timing cameras that are linked with each other that show a running time are placed so that they shoot into a frame that shows the entry and exit from the course.

The altitude restriction for the 3KM course starts 1Km outside of the gate, at which point you are not allowed to vary your altitude more than 300 feet. Going outbound on the course you have to decelerate, turn around line back up on the course, stabilize your altitude within the limits, and accelerate back up to speed.

The fastest four consecutive passes, two in each direction are then averaged to get the speed for the record. Lyle Shelton's and the Rare Bear's record was slower Than could have been achieved because the last pass was made after the Nitrous Oxide ran out. Had the Nitrous Oxide not run out the record would be in the mid 530's, but that is life.

A side note my dad has said that was the most demanding flying he has ever done, threading a needle with an 8600 pound airplane running at it's mechanical and aerodynamic maximium, keeping scan on the gauges, 500 feet off the ground.

When we set the record representatives of the tribe that owned the land we were flying over, (we had to get their permission.) came to visit. The Medicine Man of the tribe said as he watched "you guys must be going 530 miles an hour", and then he replied "nobody will ever break that, huh?" Over all the ensuing years at Reno that Rare Bear has raced it has never used as much power as she did that day. So how fast would she go on clean course, with a good stick?

[First time Juke]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

The altitude restriction for the 3KM course starts 1Km outside of the gate, at which point you are not allowed to vary your altitude more than 300 feet.

100 meters deviation is not much ( 300 ft ) but will allow the plane to go either 2 degrees up or down...I assume "downhill" go 20 mph faster than "uphill" !?...and coming straight from a dive before the timing..another 10-20 mph maybe ?

Below 3K and the 100 m downhill as a diagram..and a detail of two planes one going 2 degrees up another down 2 degrees.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

I recall the plane can speed up diving before the measured 3K distance each way. I read this from the AR 5 records in the web while I studied the info for my own super lite AC. I wonder how much more speed that actually can deliver in 3K....not much 10 mph max.

You would be incorrect your altitude deviation is restricted when you enter the outer gates which are 1KM outside the 3KM course on each side. the maximum altitude you can go to during the turn around is 1500 feet, by the time you have decelerated enough to make the turn, turned back around, lined up on course set your altitude, done your gauge scan, If you think your going to risk invalidating your record (remember the wick is already burning on your engines lifespan!) by doing cute tricks with altitude your mistaken.

[taglialavore]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

I suppose that a record breaking is a huge enterprise, planned very deeply long before the event, a lot of effort and sacrifice and study of the best way to do it.
But, as I said above, in the race, seems to me, the Rare Bear has a bit of spare power in the major part of the race, and applies all the full horses at the final laps. May be someone explains here some tactics used to race (fool of me).
And as I read here lately, the Merlins are giving their lives each race (it drives me sad), really want to see all of them fighting for the lead, it means a more attractive race, instead of only one far ahead.
Well, thatīs enough, I always think not to post any more, and let the people who knows about this to do it, but it is more strong than me.
Thanks

[David E. Wells]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

May be someone explains here some tactics used to race (fool of me).
And as I read here lately, the Merlins are giving their lives each race (it drives me sad), really want to see all of them fighting for the lead, it means a more attractive race, instead of only one far ahead.
Well, thatīs enough, I always think not to post any more, and let the people who knows about this to do it, but it is more strong than me.
Thanks

You're No Fool, the Merlins DO Die at the end of every race and it's not over until the Fat Lady Sings.
Merlin was THE Magician, the mystery of how he did it is in the AIRE!...D.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

You're No Fool, the Merlins DO Die at the end of every race and it's not over until the Fat Lady Sings.
Merlin was THE Magician, the mystery of how he did it is in the AIRE!...D.

Hey Tag.. you just keep on postin my friend!

[First time Juke]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

You would be incorrect your altitude deviation is restricted when you enter the outer gates which are 1KM outside the 3KM course on each side. the maximum altitude you can go to during the turn around is 1500 feet, by the time you have decelerated enough to make the turn, turned back around, lined up on course set your altitude, done your gauge scan, If you think your going to risk invalidating your record (remember the wick is already burning on your engines lifespan!) by doing cute tricks with altitude your mistaken.

Very good..the 4 seconds straight and level and then 2 degrees down for 12 seconds that is the time it takes to run 1K + 3K.
I assume the plane is pretty rough at those power settings and gauges tremble like pot in an african village when 1000 elephants run by ?
Could there be somekinda simple device in the cockpit to tell the 1,5 - 2,0 degree downhill so that you don't really have to study it too hard ?

Below how I would run Tweedy if I ever get it build.

[stuntflyr]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

[QUOTE=Juke]Very good..the 4 seconds straight and level and then 2 degrees down for 12 seconds that is the time it takes to run 1K + 3K.
I assume the plane is pretty rough at those power settings and gauges tremble like pot in an african village when 1000 elephants run by ?


Could there be somekinda simple device in the cockpit to tell the 1,5 - 2,0 degree downhill so that you don't really have to study it too hard ?





Yes.

It's called sight picture. It is attained by looking out the windshield. One becomes more precise at perceiving attitude the more experience is gained.

There is no time to look at an artificial instrument, and in visual conditions the best instrument in the airplane is the windshield.

The human being is still the best and most sophisticated super computer.