Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

[Mluvara]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

Originally Posted by grampi
I see it a little differently. I don't think Bear could've run with Dago in '03 no matter what. No unlimited class racer (including Bear) has ever run as fast as Dago was running that year.

Eliminating the fudge factor, race speed for Dago in Friday's unlimited heat was 496~497. Rare Bear qualified at 491 in 1996 (before 'fudge factor', and incidentally... faster than Dago qualified that year). Dago, Strega and the Bear have all been within a few mph of each other at various points...

Historically speaking, no other racer has ever gone as fast on the course in a heat race as Dago did in 2003. Dago didn't use all of its potential that year and had more left.

Qualifying at a speed is one thing; completing an entire race at a sustained speed is another and says more about the reliability of the systems and aircraft.

Michael

[taglialavore]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

I have a doubt about this. Was the Rare Bear raced not at full power, just preserving a little bit its engine? in the race course speaking.

[Mluvara]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

I have a doubt about this. Was the Rare Bear raced not at full power, just preserving a little bit its engine? in the race course speaking.

Straight line speed does not equate to the same as on the course. They are two different dynamics of flight.

Loaded up on the course, they are not as fast as in a respective straight line, and this is different for each airplane.

Michael

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

Straight line speed does not equate to the same as on the course. They are two different dynamics of flight.

Loaded up on the course, they are not as fast as in a respective straight line, and this is different for each airplane.

Michael

Michael, are you saying you think the Mustangs are faster in a turn than the Bearcat?

[Mluvara]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

Michael, are you saying you think the Mustangs are faster in a turn than the Bearcat?

I think what I'm trying to convey is that I see people saying

"The Bear set a 3km record at 528. Why didn't it go that fast on the course?".

And my response is that the speed in a turn on the course is slower than that of a straight line.

I don't know definitively if a mustang or bearcat turns better than another on the course.

Michael

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

I think what I'm trying to convey is that I see people saying

"The Bear set a 3km record at 528. Why didn't it go that fast on the course?".

And my response is that the speed in a turn on the course is slower than that of a straight line.

I don't know definitively if a mustang or bearcat turns better than another on the course.

Michael

rgr...

It's conna be fun to see how it all sorts out ey!

[taglialavore]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

You are right MLuvara. The weight of both are similar, indeed?.
So, the Rare Bear may race at lower power settings, not intensionally looking for racecourse speed, just preserving the engine?. I´m guessing.

[RichH]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

I think what I'm trying to convey is that I see people saying

"The Bear set a 3km record at 528. Why didn't it go that fast on the course?".

Michael

I don't think anyone was saying that.

Myself, just trying to counter grampi's assertion (and lack of respect)that the Bear should so easily be beaten. We shall see...

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

So, the Rare Bear may race at lower power settings, not intensionally looking for racecourse speed, just preserving the engine?

For many years back there, ranchers lost horses, and the Rare Bear was in search of the lost horse POWER...

Remember the echo over the hills not long before the Gold finals Sunday, '08?

There's a new rancher on the team and maybe he's a pretty good wrangler?



BTW... bunch O' new pictures on rarebear.com

[taglialavore]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

For many years back there, ranchers lost horses, and the Rare Bear was in search of the lost horse POWER...

Remember the echo over the hills not long before the Gold finals Sunday, '08?

There's a new rancher on the team and maybe he's a pretty good wrangler?



BTW... bunch O' new pictures on rarebear.com

I hope so

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

I hope so

As the Bear evolves, so will her site...

[Mluvara]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

You are right MLuvara. The weight of both are similar, indeed?.
So, the Rare Bear may race at lower power settings, not intensionally looking for racecourse speed, just preserving the engine?. I´m guessing.

I have no idea what power they have run because I am not involved with the team, but see my comments below.

I don't think anyone was saying that.

Myself, just trying to counter grampi's assertion (and lack of respect)that the Bear should so easily be beaten. We shall see...

Understood. However, I do know that Dago had more left in 2003. Second place sets the pace, so the Bear likely was using whatever they had or were willing to give at the time and Dago just ran enough to keep ahead. How much more the Bear may have had, is not known publicly. But, 2003 was the fastest race ever on record, so until then, no one had run that fast for so long.

I look forward to another great race in 2008 and hope everyone is healthy come Sunday =)

Michael

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

I do know that Dago had more left in 2003.

I won't question that but I would question.... could Skip have used it and kept the engine healthy?

Over the past years of Dago's wins, haven't we had engines come in from the race that, had that race been a lap longer, would, in all likelihood, not have been running when she landed?

PLEASE don't think I'm trashing what you're saying! I just know we're squeezing a hell of a lot more HP per SQ inch out of the Merlin than we ever will have to from the 3350...

September Pops being in the mix as well.. and we don't know what they can eventually pull out of their hat.. The big question in my mind is, with the dollars in the bank on the radial side today, will the Merlin guys be able to successfully get the power needed to keep up with teams with enough bux to have a LOT more cubic inches and have QEC's in the bank come Sunday?

JUSSSSST when you think this sport *could* become a "warbird parade".. the plot thickens!

Gotta love it!!!

[grampi]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

Eliminating the fudge factor, race speed for Dago in Friday's unlimited heat was 496~497. Rare Bear qualified at 491 in 1996 (before 'fudge factor', and incidentally... faster than Dago qualified that year). Dago, Strega and the Bear have all been within a few mph of each other at various points...

Everybody knows race speeds are indicitive of nothing. The leader goes as fast as they have to in order to keep the lead and no faster to save the engine. The 507 MPH laps were more indicitive of what Dago was capable of, but even then you know they still weren't running full bore.

[grampi]

Re: Why doesn't anyone ever attempt to break Rare Bear's speed record?

I don't think anyone was saying that.

Myself, just trying to counter grampi's assertion (and lack of respect)that the Bear should so easily be beaten. We shall see...

I guess you take what you want from what you read and disregard the rest. Simply making a statement that another plane is capable of breaking Bear's record is not a lack of respect. In fact, I've clearly said several times in this thread that Bear is an extremely fast plane and breaking his record would certainly be no cake walk, but I think it can be done. The question is, does anyone whose capable of breaking the record want it bad enough to actually make the attempt?