a litte advice litte old man problem

[FuryFan]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

Really?

Even after you've personally visually inspected it enough to say all this:









...you still throw out that you hope it's not a "movie prop"?

Talk about a get-outta-jail-free card.

That's a lot to have seen and yet still not have seen an N number.

WORD! .............Sorry, couldn't resist. Having said that, can't wait to hear the next installment from h34race. Maybe a picture of the barn?

Kevin

[h34race]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

This story is not to impress or imbellish or Bull **** every body on here is very well versed in every feild I have nothing to prove or gain the plane is sill under the tarps, underside and parts I can get my fat ars to with a flash light looks real not a expert bye anymeans just love war birds and planes real cool I am still trying to get him to let me exzoom the thing,family member finaly showed up and gave me a third dregee and asked me to get the heck off the propertie,not very nicely either so now what?? its in gravette arkansas off hwy 72 and there is an grass private feild near the house I think hendren something rite next to a ford dealer anyway,will see if thay will talk to me again they were very distrout I was in the barn and was poking around clamed he suffered from demencha and still lives in the 40's, thay have no clue what is in there he locked 30+ ago and to butt the heck out now what????? was able to gather from him that he flew it out of fortsmith airbase as what I have no clue,looks like I screwed the pooch on this one guys don't realy want to push to much harder jail is no fun they were realy mad and upset

[wolfee]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

well first thing I would do is contact the old man, see if you can get a sit down meeting with him and the family. Get his permission with the family there so everyone knows your ok to be there.

Or see if he will put it in writing that you are infact aloud to be there on the property. that way when you are there and they call the cops, you can present the letter to the family and cops (should they be called). Call it your get out of jail free card.

If both of those dont lead to anything. your hands a tied.. Not much you can do except abide by their wishes.

Keep visiting him, get to be good friends. listen to his stories, or better yet, record his stories. dont give up.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

I don't think we expect to know where each and every last airframe went

Best of luck!

T J
(Still looking for that elusive P-38)

Just understand/imagine that there are things out there that are not known where they are. This is fact, At Reno one year a spectator came up to me and started inquiring about information on an "H" model Mustang. Hmmmm, I thought not many of those, So the guy probably doesn't know what the heck he is talking about, but who knows. So he pulls a picture out of an envelope and sure enough there is a picture of what appears to be an "H" model Mustang missing everything firewall forward, apparently in a block walled building. So I roll my eyes a little and tell him that picture is really old and most likely from the 50's. Not so says the guy, he has seen the plane. Next year working on the Bearcat this same guy comes up and shows me a newer picture that has him in it, same building, same plane. I started asking questions, he just replied basically "Oh, now you want to pay attention", and walked off. Burnt that one, but I haven't heard of an "H" model Mustang showing up anywhere in New England yet either. But I have heard stories of major airframe parts of rare airplanes that are probably OUT THERE! somewhere. Just be diligent and don't intrude on someones life and make it miserable.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

that could never happen...it must be pure folklore because according to certain people on this board, every airplane from WWII is accounted for and must have ended up on our Civil Register

To be fair, in the circumstance being discussed in this thread, the posts pretty clearly identified the mythological Mustang in a barn as having previously flown in the United States under a civil registration.

FWIW, here's what I posted on WIX regarding this particular case (apologies for the cross-post, but it's relevant to JCP's point):

Yes, and there are dozens of "dead end" civil ownership records, so that's just not a feasible means of identification without further information.

So many US civil Mustangs have been covertly bought and sold (for example, for illegal export to South American countries and Israel during the 50s/60s), so many have crashed and had their identity transferred/re-used, so many were bought and 'eaten' by the Cavalier machine...the individual ownership histories of many civil-registered P-51s, especially those prior to the 1980s, are tangled messes. The official FAA records aren't exactly a roadmap, either. I know that there are a half dozen 'historians' who research and track Mustang histories, and even with people who have been researching a long time, and via many avenues, it's still not possible to have a 100% tie-up of the exact history of every single airframe. Trust me, if it were simply "that easy", I know of at least two or three people who would have all ready done that by now.

Remember, Mustangs weren't always considered the carefully-treated artifacts that they are today. In researching for my Cavalier book, I had one pilot tell me that during the 50s and 60s, P-51s "cost less per pound than a good steak". They were bought, sold, scrapped, parts swapped, IDs swapped, dismantled, rebuilt, all the time with little care given toward that airframe's provenance. Plus, the military didn't really care that much -- these airplanes were scrap, and they weren't really that interested in tracking exactly what aifrframe went to whom. Sometimes the airplanes were sold by the pound as scrap...they were simply metal that was in the shape of an airplane.

Go take a look at any of the published lists of P-51s, including the WIX Registry, and you'll find numerous Mustangs who have entries that end with unknown whereabouts or question marks. There are MANY of them. Even today, with how closely we in the warbird world track the whereabouts of individual airframes, new stuff pops up from time to time that has been squirreled away in a hangar or rebuilder's shop (something, for example, like the TF-51 project that Square One was building for Nathan Davis).

If, as the poster on AAFO has indicated, this particular aircraft was parked in the 1970s or earlier, it's entirely possible that it is true and simply slipped away unnoticed at a time when Mustangs weren't so limited in number and not so many people were tracking their every move and reporting it on the internet.

So, is the story possible? Absolutely. Time and evidence will tell.

[wolfee]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

Given the info by H34race, this is as close as I could come up with on Google Earth of the area he described.

Grass air strip
car dealer ship
HW72
gravette, AR

After looking at the maps and area for a bit, I didnt see another area that hints at a grass air strip.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...0.003,44.989,0

[BuckyD]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

Wolfee-

'AK' is Alaska. State abbreviation for Arkansas is- 'AR'.

DBD

[JCP]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

I think Randy said it best about civil ownership records in his last post..... well put!

I agree completely.

Something else to keep in mind is that are a lot of the pieces and parts that are still out there, not just the seemingly elusive complete airplane.

JC

[Airpirate]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

Rats!!!

Haven't been on here for a while, I read through 6 pages of threads expecting a photo of Mustang in an old barn.

I hope it really is a mothballed P-51 and she gets back in the air soon.

[wolfee]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

Wolfee-

'AK' is Alaska. State abbreviation for Arkansas is- 'AR'.

DBD

Oopsie!!! thanks for the correction.. will edit the post.

[Lowell]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

An interesting twist. Of the ONLY six aircraft registrered to owners in Gravette, one is registered to a Mr. Crosby. It is a 1947 Beech Bonanza. Maybe this Crosby was related to C.E. of "Mr. Choppers" fame?

Maybe, if so, he painted the old Beech in similar markings. And...maybe, for those who will listen, he tells people its a P-51.

Another remote possibility: Do we know positively that Mr. Choppers, and the Hovey Mustang are the identical airframes or could there have been a data plate/identification/major parts switch along the way?

I'm guessing somewhere in all of this there is some truth but then assumptions, and disinformation, clouded the bottom line facts.

[Big_Jim]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

An interesting twist. Of the ONLY six aircraft registrered to owners in Gravette, one is registered to a Mr. Crosby. It is a 1947 Beech Bonanza. Maybe this Crosby was related to C.E. of "Mr. Choppers" fame?

Maybe, if so, he painted the old Beech in similar markings. And...maybe, for those who will listen, he tells people its a P-51.

Another remote possibility: Do we know positively that Mr. Choppers, and the Hovey Mustang are the identical airframes or could there have been a data plate/identification/major parts switch along the way?

I'm guessing somewhere in all of this there is some truth but then assumptions, and disinformation, clouded the bottom line facts.

Crosby lived in Bellingham, WA, near the Canadian border. If memory serves me correct (someone could go check on one of the 'tracking' sites) Crosby sold it to Hovey around 1968 or so...and Hovey still owns it. And I don't believe this was a 'south of the border' special where registration numbers and plates were mixed around.

Here is a photo of Mr. Choppers at Reno '64 that was posted a couple years ago on this website.

[bellarch]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

Wolfee,

The airstrip you found is:

Bella Vista Airstrip
Owner: Hendren Aviation Inc, 1501 Hwy 72 Se, Gravette, Ar 72736, 479-787-7500

These pieces fit the puzzle quite nicely.

Only problem I see is that currently, this is a 2,600 ft. strip...

Slippin' a P-51 in there sound feasable? (armchair pilot question)

P.S. Where are "American Pickers" when you really need them?

Brian.

[wolfee]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

Slippin' a P-51 in there sound feasable? (armchair pilot question)

It's grass, so anything that lands there will slow down and stop quite a bit faster. Not sure my self, but it might be doable. (just a guess here. I am by far not even close to knowing the specs).


P.S. Where are "American Pickers" when you really need them?

Judging by the shows I have seen this year already.. the Carolina's.

[Apteryx]

Re: a litte advice litte old man problem

Only problem I see is that currently, this is a 2,600 ft. strip...
Slippin' a P-51 in there sound feasable? (armchair pilot question)
Brian.

Temperature & altitude not withstanding, 2600' is very do-able.
Dave Morss has been in and out of KSQL several times,
with Polar Bear, with very little braking.

Paul