Wheel Landings

[aflyer]

Re: Wheel Landings

I have long had a rule that if the airplane has toe brakes, and the wind is blowing, and I am landing on pavement or dirt, I will wheel land it. If the wind is really blowing, it will be pretty fast with half flaps. It can be hard on the brakes, because once it's down, I want to get to walking speed as soon as I can, before anything bad happens.

If the runway is slippery, then you are more limited in the amount of crosswind you can handle, and a 3 point landing works best. Same with heel brakes.

I do like the tail low wheelie. A friend with a ton of experience calls them "taints"...taint a wheel landing, taint a 3-point. None the less, I like them best for everyday landings on pavement.

All that said, there is something magic about a tailwheel airplane, a grass runway, and a 3-point landing! The airplane just loves it.

john

[Jgrifft6]

Re: Wheel Landings

Great Discussion led by some experts in the field!

One quick note I've learned after 200hrs in the T-6. A tail low wheel landing will eat your lunch in a T-6! The mustang has more air over the tail due to landing speeds and less blanking out by the fuselage because of streamlining with the tail low...it also eats up less runway than tail high landings, has better tire wear, less chance of catching the prop, thus it is the preferred method of mustang instructors. The T-6 has that big round cowl up front and tons of airplane in front of the tail to blank that tail out, thats one of the reason you must get so vigilant while putting the tail down from a wheelie as you go through the transition. If you run a T-6 on a tail low wheel landing, you're combining the worse parts of either method (no t/w on the ground and not much good air over the rudder). You also take some weight off the wheels (if you needed to use brakes, this would be critical) since the wing is still biting some air in tail low attitude. I always make sure to put the tail far into good air during wheel landings (around flying attitude) until i'm ready to set the tail down. Worked well for me so far, even in 20-25knot xwind components. It also gives great visibility to keep track of any other T-6s on the runway in front of you if you are flying formation.
In all fairness to the 3 point, after the first 3-5 seconds, its usually a piece of cake but the time right before she touches and right afterwards, I always feel not completely in control which is something I never experience in a wheelie.
Hope this helps and if I ever groundloop it, I'll make sure to come back and tell you guys to ignore this post.

Jason

[MLenoch]

Re: Wheel Landings

Ken.......

A very good & important point.......one of the problems in these light civie Mustangs is that the CG is so far forward; likely at the forward limit. When I stick my "fat" crew chief in the back (actually, an ex-wrestler=big guy), it lands tail-low much easier. Thus, the 'combat' restored Mustangs have a CG that is further aft than the civie birds. And also, the WW2 Mustang pilot manual descriptions would better correspond to these birds.

Over the years, I've also found the T-6s have a better crosswind control capability than the civie Mustangs. Ailerons and rudder are more effective in maintaining desired landing attitude for a T-6 crosswind landing than in the civie Mustang. I have not had much opportunity to fly the 'combat' versions in strong crosswind landings because they are show planes and by owner's choice, not flown on bad weather days.

Vlado
PS: Please don't tell my crew chief I called him "fat"!!Thx

[Peashooter]

Re: Wheel Landings

Some of you have seen my post about the Lee Bottom Fly-In. This was a great place to watch gusty crosswind ops up close and personal. The runway is 17/35 and we were landing to the South. Winds aloft were 240 at 30-35 kts at 3,000, but there's a 3-500' hill just West of the runway and the Ohio River is immediately to the East of the grass runway.

As I followed my brother in (he in a Super Cub, me in a 7AC Champ) there was a lot of turbulence on downwind and even more on base leg as we passed through the rotor coming over the hill. As we flew down final and got lower, the crosswind shifted from right to left and the turbulence diminished. On the left side of the runway there are openings in the tree line which made for consistent gusts about 1/4 of the way down the runway. I elected to do a wing-low, slightly tail-low wheelie since it was gusty and I wanted full control authority down to and onto the runway, which was lined on both sides by people and airplanes. A three-point landing in the Champ in gusty crosswind conditions is kind of like a kite without a tail -- it's controllable, but far more comfortable with the extra speed and authority of a wheel landing. At Lee Bottom, I flew it down to the runway with a wing low and flared just enough to roll it on, thus a slightly tail-low wheelie, left wheel first letting the right wheel come down as airspeed bled off.

We watched lots of landing by lots of tail draggers. Most did wheel landings. One Stearman came in and was just about to touch down doing a three point when he passed through the gust from the left tree opening. He ballooned about 7-8' into the air and to the right and threw in a bunch of power to save the landing. My brother and I agreed that if he'd done a wheelie, he would have "flown" right through the gust, needing just some rudder to maintain runway heading.

Later in the day, the DC-3 Adventures -3 did some fly-bys. He did a beautiful wing-low, one wheel touch 'n go, rolling the left wheel about 1,000' down the runway. There was some rudder dancing, but it was a beautiful maneuver suited to the conditions.

One note about wheel landings in a Champ, I have noticed that solo you barely touch the rudder, however, with anyone over about 130 lbs in the back, you can feel a greater tendency to swing into the wind if the airplane gets divergent at all. It's easily caught, but you have to pay attention. As my Dad taught me, "you're the pilot, fly the airplane."

I do lots of touch 'n goes with the Champ just becaue it's so much fun, and I usually alternate wheel and full-stall landings. I find that the full stall requires more finesse with the elevator, since it's easy to round out too soon and balloon into a dropped-in landing.

One final note, with my Long EZ, there's only one way -- ya gotta fly it on with a round-out to touch down. The only variation is that if it's gusty, I'll leave the belly flap closed and carry a couple of extra knots per the gust margin. It never fails to make the pilot look good in turbulent conditions.

[Ken Dwelle]

Re: Wheel Landings

"you're the pilot, fly the airplane."

Hmmmm, My dad used to tell me close to the same thing: "You're the pilot, make the airplane do what you want it to do."

Good posts all of them.

Ken

[shorebird]

Re: Wheel Landings

My two cents;

Wheel landings assure that the Pilot can accurately choose his/her touchdown spot and provide better over the nose visibility and ground tracking on roll out. This is an advantage even on, or especially on short, narrow runways. Attempting to spot land in a three point attiitude in any tail dragger that is blind over the nose is a crap shoot, especially in windy conditions. Often, setting down at a higher ground speed on the main gear will allow for a shorter stopping distance with a higher degree accuracy and consistency. Landing on the main gear allows for the transfer of energy to the ground via the breaks and tires. Generally, brakes will stop an aircraft sooner with greater consistency, than aerodynamic braking (holding the aircraft off to a full stall touchdown). Of course, this assumes that you have good brakes and tires that are large enough to have good contact with the ground and adequate traction.
This question can also depend on the type of aircraft. A short squatty aircraft like a Champ or Super Cub with good overall visibility over the nose, can in the right hands, be consistently landed shorter in three point rather then a tail high, wheel landing. However, for blind aircraft with higher wing loading a wheel landing may be preferred.
Formula One drivers at Reno who probably face the highest work load of any pilot landing a racer choose, almost exclusively, to wheel land. They do so because they don't want to be blindly, pecking at a runway at 80 mph. Rather, they want to set their main gear onto the runway at an aim point with good forward visibility and allow the aircraft to decelerate on the main gear. At Reno, over the nose visibility is especially important due to other landing traffic they may be on the runway.
I'll end with another interesting question to befuddle old tail dragger pilots: Which type can you consistently land shorter a tricycle gear aircraft or a tail dragger?????

[Ken Dwelle]

Re: Wheel Landings

Ken:
When are you going to race the T6 again? The T6's need guys like you in their ranks.
Race 18 (ret.)

Thank you Randy, we'll see.

-Ken

[Jan]

Re: Wheel Landings

Thanks for constructive discussion.

B.t.w. there are planes, where you really donīt have a choice.
Although this pic is from take off, the aoa on landings is the same.
To wheel Czech Mate down like a civie Mustang, Corsair or Sea Fury
without propstrike seems to be not very realistic.

http://www.airrace.info/reno2006/06uSunMonTue/06u_9317.jpg

[supercub]

Re: Wheel Landings

Difference between a wheel landing and a 3 pointer?? is the cost of the repairs if one screws up. I agree, it somewhat depends on the airplane. One comment I'll make is that......in a properly executed wheel landing there is no need to push forward on the stick immediately following the wheels touching, to keep them glued on......if you have to do this, you're in the wrong attitude for a properly excuted wheel landing.
Brian

[Tin Man]

Re: Wheel Landings

Thanks for constructive discussion.

B.t.w. there are planes, where you really donīt have a choice.
Although this pic is from take off, the aoa on landings is the same.
To wheel Czech Mate down like a civie Mustang, Corsair or Sea Fury
without propstrike seems to be not very realistic.


http://www.airrace.info/reno2006/06u...e/06u_9317.jpg

Just curious, do the unlimiteds have an over the nose visabiliy test like the F1s do?
Tom

[HiredBitSlinger]

Re: Wheel Landings

Evidence that no matter how you plan to do it, things can get exiting fast.

[Uh-sure]

Re: Wheel Landings

Ole R.A Bob Hoover used to land on one wheel like that all the time........

[wardog]

Re: Wheel Landings

thanks for some great conversation by experienced pilots. my 30 hrs in the T6 doesn't compare to what the rest of you have, but all my T6 landings have been wheel landings. My training has been from a well known airshow pilot, and he does wheel landings. However, since I'm a relative rookie, do you think that landing from the back seat makes a difference in whether you opt for a wheel landing or 3-pt? It's hard enough to see the runway from the back w/o trying to three point!

[race9]

Re: Wheel Landings

I've got about 200 hours in various tail draggers, and I've three pointed every one (or at least tried to). On the other hand, all of these are 185 sized or smaller, so I have no idea whether to 3-point or wheel warbirds, although I think Jimmy wheels his Mustang down.

[Peashooter]

Re: Wheel Landings

I've got about 200 hours in various tail draggers, and I've three pointed every one (or at least tried to). On the other hand, all of these are 185 sized or smaller, so I have no idea whether to 3-point or wheel warbirds, although I think Jimmy wheels his Mustang down.

Hey Ryan, How many planes did you solo on your birthday? I remember the story in Sport Aviation about Dirk (your dad?) soloing a bunch of planes on his 16th, including the P-51 and a Beech 18! Peas