Thunder Mustang

[Reever]

That is the exact truth.

If you don't stand up when someone else is getting screwed over. Don't expect help when it's your turn.

[W J Pearce]

Well, I stand up today because I know of this issue. I also happen to be close enough to John Parker to ask him what is going on. Other issues that I have no knowledge of, I would be willing to stand, but can't because I am unaware. Other issues that I hear rumors of, I don't know the target well enough to ask questions. Also in the past it has been hard to get the word out of something being pulled like this. Now, websites can assist on getting the word out to the fans, fans like me.

I will stand for what I believe in and what I feel is right. I can't stand if I don't know that I should be standing.

I've asked for nothing more that to send emails to Houghton. So we can stand together. Feel free to post what you feel is unjust, and I bet I will be standing by your side.

Like I have said, this is not solely about John Parker. This is about an organization (RARA) that is able to do whatever it pleases without accountability. It will change because the sport will die. It is just a matter of when. If RARA plays nice it will last a lot longer.

Banning a participant that will be at the races whether racing or not, because he is a tenant; I feel will be a PR nightmare.

I like the races and hope they continue as long as possible, in one form or another. I can only stomach so much of the ego sandbox BS though.

Once again I would like to thank you all for posting,

Bill Pearce

[claylemon]

I find this whole Thunder Mustang thing very disturbing. Although, RARA does have the right to invite or uninvite anyone they see fit. It doesn't matter what the we think.


Unfortunate this has to happen, Clay

[Bill@Interstell]

I find this very disturbing.

I thought I had seen a marked improvement between RARA and the contestants since Bill Houghton joined the gold old boys network. It's relly hard to tell from their statements or anything posted here what is going on, but it appears to be trending off toeward the bad old days. I can't imagine this will end well.

I'd consider a boycott, but I'm far to adicted for that and I'm not sure that would be good for the sport either.

Blackrock in 2004?

[ramp mouse]

my reply to rara

I am sorry to hear of your boards recent action against ARA racing and john parker in particular.
With all the ongoing issues that threaten the races, land uses, suburban sprawl, and the most important 50 year old aircraft that are exhorbantly expensive to own, maintain and then run them into the ground for a week.
You may be able to exclude some from the races now, but what happens in a few years when the lack of parts and the increasing value of warbirds makes their race just a formation flyby?
If this happens the air races will be dead and your board will be kings without a country, You may have been right but at what cost?
The Aviation community is small enough and those that can race is even smaller, can you really afford to exclude anybody who wants to race just because of a difference of opinions.
I say suck it up and do whats good for buisness and the fans, let all who register race and swallow your pride and do whats best for the fans.
I have been to the races for the last 9 years and yes i sat in the stands for the memorial on friday after the towers fell.I sure hope that aviation nation and the casinos in vegas can pull off a race,if they do RARA has ceased to function and has erased an icon.
Heres to Robert Converse, edie van fossen, and all the others Rara has seen fit to blacklist. It didnt work for hollywood and it might work in the short term for RARA but it seems shortsighted for the long term viability of the races,If you exclude everybody who will pay to watch the pylons in the clear blue sky? Not Me.

[claylemon]

Originally posted by Bill@Interstell
.
consider a boycott, but I'm far to adicted for that and I'm not sure that would be good for the sport either.

Blackrock in 2004?

First of all, what does Blackrock in 2004 mean? What would boycotting the races achieve? This once a year thing is its own entity. Who is gonna have the balls to try and take it somewhere else?


Clay

[Unregistered]

Blackrock in 2004 means I wish there was some one with the "balls" (actually its more a matter of cash) to start a new venue. Blackrock has pleanty of room. remember Reno started on the stead ranch in the stinkin' desert.

Las Vegas would be great, but I think there is an issue with using the military base for a race with a purse. For now it has to be an exhibition. Perhaps if we all write our congress people we could get an exemption via act of congress.

Not likely, but I can dream can't I?

I was agreeing a boycott would not be good for the sport.

[Reever]

One of the best possible venues that I have seen in person, is Indian Springs, an Air Force auxillary base. Location is about 35 miles east of Las Vegas.

The runway layout is basically the same as Stead. Altitude is about 3,500 feet.

[Randy Haskin]

Originally posted by Reever
One of the best possible venues that I have seen in person, is Indian Springs, an Air Force auxillary base. Location is about 35 miles east of Las Vegas.

The runway layout is basically the same as Stead. Altitude is about 3,500 feet.

If Indian Springs is the "best possible venue" in the Vegas area, things don't look so good, IMHO.

First off, you have the same problem there that you do at Nellis -- federal property -- and a couple of other additional problems;

One, the town of Indian Springs literally has one way in and one way out, so traffic to and from the race site would be via a single 2-lane highway. The town is unbelievably small, so finding parking for the crowd and controlling the crowd would be obscene. The base is also very small -- about half the size of Stead in terms of space between the ramp and the 2-lane highway that runs across the front gates. There are also no workable hangers for the crews to use for any kind of heavy maintenance (unless they've done some serious reconstruction to that place in the last 4 years or so).

Although there are three runways at Indian Springs, two of them are closed and not maintained. On the the "front" east-west runway is open, so that limits wind options for takeoffs and landings. Obviously in an emergency any piece of pavement works, even if weeds are growing up through the cracks in it.

The "race course" area that sits just to the north of Indian Springs is walled in on three sides by mountains and is an active bombing range (range 63 Bravo). In fact, if you visit the area during an Operation CAPSTONE live fire exercise you will see it and the dry lakebed that sits next to it just over the small mountain get beat up. Fortunately all the live ordnance is actually dropped next door, though, and not right next to Indian Springs.

I hope that somebody can come up with an additional (or replacement??) venue to hold the races, but I don't think this is it.

Personally I think Phoenix was the best alternate spot when you consider all things -- as long as you can get the Phoenix 500 management team to stay the hell away from it.

[Joe]

I think the idea of sending e-mails is a good idea, although I doubt it will have any positive effect. Ultimately, you vote with your feet. Don't go. Don't spend your money on RARA. The problem; if enough folks stay away to make a difference, you kill the Golden Goose, with the gold being air racing as a form of entertainment. Are you ready to stay away? I'm not, either. I'll be there this year, and I intend to be there next year.

As long as RARA can keep bringing in the Thundrbirds and other top airshow performers, the crowds, although somewhat smaller, will keep coming to the airshow, and the event will cotinue to live. RARA can make any rules they want, because it's not a democracy, but a dictatorship. Racing is only a part of the show to many people attending the event. The number of fanatics like us is probably not enough to make a difference. I'm not saying don't try, but understand the reality. Look at the attendence for the entire weekend at Reno. Then look at the attendence at 1 football game at Michigan, Ohio State, Texas, LSU,etc... The total of just 2 of those games will equal, or exceed the entire attendence for the week of Reno. In terms of actual different individuals, 1 game probably has more. This isn't all that popular of an event in the overall scope.

I don't like a lot of things that RARA does to alienate fans and racers. But, it's the only game in town. We can try to make our opinions heard, but the odds are not really in our favor. It does make the future of the races look somewhat bleak. Does RARA really care about air racing?

[Unregistered]

Who can even count all the Pilots and racers that don't attend because of RARA?

If the fans really knew what goes on, they would be shocked.

[GregS]

You've got to excuse me......but what are you guys taling about ( and in circles, I may add )??????
Could we please have some sort of description instead of all this cryptic banter?????

Just a thought for the other 3-4 people reading this board.

Greg Stark

[Race#21]

My hat is off to RARA, they run a huge and difficult event exceptionally well. They manage to successfully put on the only Airrace of its type left in the world. They somehow manage to pull-off the races and the airshow as near perfect as I can tell, and they manage to succeed in this barely profitable venue despite the Military Demonstration Show demands and the "Type A" ego's of the racers. (I can say this because I am one of the"Type A" "Sticks" with a "D" no "t"). The closing is a safety issue. It is done at Oshkosh and other show/events. Yes it does inconvenience some tenants but if I were based at 4SD, I would relocate to a nearby airport for the 10 days that the races are held. The idea of a boycott is event suicide. I don't know John Parker so I will leave the jury out on him, but it looks to me like he stuck his stick in a bee hive... Not a good idea.
Tom Campau
"Mystical Power"
Race #21
2002 T-6 Gold.

[Reever]

Okay. Just answer two questions.

What does John Parkers dispute with RARA, about access to his home field during non racing/airshow hours, have to do with his racing in the event?

Why should a seperate dispute preclude him from participating?

[Unregistered]

that's what I see as the issue here. Not what Parker did, maybe he is really a bad neighbor and hard to get along with and opened a can of bees. but what has that got to do with him racing? I think you pilot guys should stick up for each other or you are all just as apt to be swatted at some time in your raceing days if you step outside the box.

just my two cents,
a concerned race fan who has never gotten to attend but always watches from afar