Thoughts on 2008

[John H]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

Ah the best Reno ever.

The F22 was amazing...someone said "who needs a helicopter"...the smoking maydays of the Bear and Argonaut had me too thinking of the Super Corsair. Really thought the Bear's weekend was over with that gear mayday...hearing Steve say "sorry John " and then joy John coming down on final saying "I've got two greens." Loved hearing that Tigercat and watching it go faster each race. The Super Corsair is just awesome. Laughed when Dago kept racing on the course after the checkered flag and Steve said "Race is over Dago." Loved chatting with Tiger's girlfriend about Tiger and his family and where they come from in Italy. Spending Sat night at the track to watch the excellent new Phil Wallick film, then having a cool conversation the next day asking him questions the next day about it. Hanging with Sherman Smoot as he described improvements they are going to make to the Czech Mate and it's future potential...also was cool to drink the excellent wine he makes. The joy of my favorite airplane finally winning again...can't believe it's been 11 years. Cool talks with Steve and Karen Hinton, proud parents of the new Strega driver. Trying to keep up on alcohol intake with my new australian buddies and making it. The racing was the best in many years...thankful for a safe week, but filled with thoughts of sadness all weekend about the loss of Erica. Riding back to the hotel all 7 of us packed in a dodge wagon with Tiger and Sherman and Sherman's backseat driving ticking off our chaffeur. Simply the best Reno ever.

John

[taglialavore]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

In my humble opinion, Red Bull is nice competition but Unlimiteds IS racing

[MRussell]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

That's my signature you're talking about, and it's defensible because the RBAR is essentially figure skating in the sky with a time component lumped uncomfortably on top. It's a show, not a race. True air racing was invented in the early 20th century and was later minted by Bill Stead and others at Reno.

I understand exactly how much money Red Bull makes and I understand with crystal clarity what that means. But I find it important to make the distinction equally clear about the differences between RBAR and NCAR. I took four newbies to Reno this year and I think each of them was under the impression beforehand that they'd be seeing something akin to RBAR.

Thank goodness the Gold Unlimiteds fixed that crap.

[Ron101502]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

Red Bull gets big crowds because there is no charge for admission and they run in very public places. It's an ad campaign, not intended to make money or pay for itself.

Ron

[MRussell]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

Sorry for the threadjack Spacegrl.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

... What happened to the car drop (there was a Chinook on the ramp), Julie Clark, Jimmy Franklin, Sean Tucker, Theresa Stokes, etc?

We lost Jim in 2005...: http://www.franklinairshow.com/Memorial.htm

[Sky Critter]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

Red Bull gets big crowds because there is no charge for admission and they run in very public places. It's an ad campaign, not intended to make money or pay for itself.

Ron

Sorry for taking the thread off course again but...
The above quote isn't exactly correct. There are places that spectators can watch the RBAR from a distance for free but it's akin to watching the Reno Races from behind the stands. In San Diego, RBAR charged quite a bit for general admission and $150-$200 for the really good viewing area. If you want into the VIP areas it's 2-3 times that.

Also, the RBAR pilots are spending quite a bit of time, effort, engineering and money in mods aimed specifically at getting around the RBAR course faster and are no longer set up for pure aerobatic flight.

A note on "experimental": It has nothing to do with operating an aircraft outside it's design envelope. Almost every aircraft at Reno, with the exception of some of the vendors (Cessna, Cirrus, Lear, etc...) have experimental type certificates.

I like both and attend both whenever possible.

And now, back to your originally scheduled program...

[Ron101502]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

Thanks for the correction, I know it is a big expense for great airshow pilots like Chambliss and Mangold who are also airline pilots and Goulian who makes a living flying airshows to do the Red Bull thing all around the world. Not to mention the hours of practice and aerobatic competition experience required to fly in the Red Bull series. But it's a different sport and takes a different skill set both for pilots and crew chiefs to achieve success. So it's like comparing NASCAR to NHRA or IRL. But you can be fans of all of them, as I am. I remember talking to an airshow pilot, I can't remember who, a few years back who had only civilian experience and never flew military fighters and didn't care for us former military pilots. What I explained to him was that what the aerobatic competition and airshow pilots did was like Olympic ice skating, while what fighter pilots do is like ice hocky. Figure skaters try and skate perfect, hockey players want to get a goal and ice skating is nothing more than a means to an end to achieve that. I think maybe there is a comparison between Red Bull and Reno there somewhere, what do you think? Lots goes into both.

Ron

[Sky Critter]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

Ron,
I like the way you've stated that and I agree with the comparison. I find a great deal of enjoyment in attending both events but, if I had to choose one or the other, NCAR wins hands down. I believe that any event presenting aviation in a good light is beneficial to the entire community. And yes, that includes the RRL if it ever really gets going (and I hope it does). I only wish RARA had the financial resources to promote NCAR the way Red Bull does. RBAR has their collective s#*! together and really knows how to put on a show. Their events are much more elaborate than what they did at Reno a few years back.

[stuntflyr]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

[A note on "experimental": It has nothing to do with operating an aircraft outside it's design envelope. Almost every aircraft at Reno, with the exception of some of the vendors (Cessna, Cirrus, Lear, etc...) have experimental type certificates.
Sky Critter]


The very reason for the Experimental category is the operation of an aircraft that doesn't conform to criteria set down in other categories.

For airplanes that have been certified in say the Standard or Limited category and are re-licensed in Experimental, the airpane may be legally operated outside the limitations for the reasons on the license, ie; Experimental, Racing and Exhibition.

For homebuilts, the Amateur-Built, Experimental category views the limitations as a recommendation. They are like a demonstrated crosswind value.

There are many Standard, Limited and Aerobatic category airplanes participating at the races.

[G. van Dyk]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

I've always thought the best analog to the RBAR / NCAR comparison would be equestrian show jumping compared to horse racing. You could make good comparisons in operations of the events, and the preperations of the 'steeds'. How often are unlimiteds called "thouroughbreds"?

Gerry

[Hans Oberev]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

Gold unlimited racing was off the hook!! Friday's race was better if you like passing and posturing. If you saw, Tiger came up and flexed his muscle then backed off. Brown and Dago raced each other pretty hard for a few laps. Bear was in the mix too. The race n Sunday was exciting but we didn't have all 4 hot rods really in the mix. Brown and Penney were out gunned from the get go as the two Merlins dropped the hammer and took off!! Why were the Merlins so fast and reliable this year!! Two engine builders independent of each other!! Better R&D during the off season? These engines cost too much to not be totally prepared. What got added to the equation this year I wonder??

Totally agree with the Thunderbird show being a little on the slow side. I was sitting in the stands with my fiance Friday and her 3rd grade class. One kid had cottton candy wrapped around him and his black t shirt. Had no clue as to what was going on in the air!! More interested in disturbing everyone around him and consuming mass quantities of food. I don't know how she does it every day!! They had to catch a bus at 1PM. If the Thunderbird crew didn't have to get in the act, they would have seen the planes actually fly. Bummer!! I mean I undersand the need for a support crew but the whole drill team thing is just too much. I was making wise cracks about them picking their noses and wiping their...never mind!! in that short, crisp, every move is calculated routine they employ!! It takes too much time and time the kids didn't have!! They wanted to see the planes in the air not some guy in a jumpsuit doing one arm hand stands like he was performing for the Barnum and Bailey Circus!! Enough said!!

Announcing...what announcing!! We need someone in the booth that understands racing!!

City of Reno...very frustrating! I live here. We have one of the greatest shows on the earth. We need to do a better job of promoting it and running it. Flags on lamp posts, bars promoting it downtown. I went over to the MGM, Bally, Hilton whatever it's called today and saw a few race people mixed in with cowboys from Fernley/Fallon. I realize the air races are for one week only but come on people find us a couple of venues to bench race after hours!! The art display was cool. Thank God for this website!!!!

[Leo]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

I dunno, I liked it this year. The racing was better than I've seen in a long time. Tho somewhat of a tail chase in the end, not near the non-events we've seen in the past when only one truly fast racer is left standing by Sunday. Thunderbirds, I still enjoy watching them, as I do any team. Even the ground show as most of it not directly related to launching the aircraft was done while the aircraft were out of the area. I thought the noise on the ramp a little load while they ran up (Kudo's to the crew that waited until AFTER the gold race to run up the lame duck!) and the show has some dead spots but all in all... and it did bring in the locals. Lot's of racing, little airshow compared to past events. Much better. The bombers on Sunday were, well, the bomb!
As far as advertising, the City of Reno (not officially, in general) does little to push the races. I don't know if it a function of RARA not advertising, the fact that it is far from the largest money-maker for local business, or the fact that it is held 20 miles northwest instead of on Virginia Street but it is advertised far less than the balloon races or the Street Vibrations (I leave out Hot August as that has reached a quasi-religion status here). Heck, the rib cookoff gets more coverage, as does Burning Man. Unless there is a crash many locals see it as just another reason for traffic.
But all things considered I think it was one of the best I've seen.

[thunderstangfan]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

the races could easily be as big or bigger than some of the other events you guys are talking about even with it only happening once a year...the question is is the event being kept small on purpose?

[Leo]

Re: Thoughts on 2008

As silly as that may sound, in a way it may be true. Usually the goal is to make any event as large as possible, make as much money as possible. The air races seem to me to fit the venue. The stands are full, the pits are full, the paddock behind is crowded. Much bigger and it would have to expand. I would love that as maybe it would stop the incredible shrinking general admission access, but I am not the investor making that decision. Would take a lot of cajones to put a large influx of money into an event that only happens once a year, and who's future existence constantly questioned.
Maybe with an expansion it's existence would no longer be questioned.