MA-II Speed Potential

[First time Juke]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

I also agree that H-model would be the way to reach some very interesting speeds...maybe with a flying tail to escape from unpleasant surprises at the transsonic region.

[Peashooter]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

I wouldn't mess with the primary structure. It was engineered and tested in wartime environs, including appropriate dive testing into the transonic regime.

Read Bob Hoover's book "Forever Flying" for some hair-raising dive-testing stories.

"Here Pard, take this thing up and see if you can break it!"

[Bill Marsh]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

I overheard a conversion between a wold-class "gold" pilot and somebody i dont know.... but obviously he knew

and i quote " MA-II is probably a 460 mph max airplane"

this was about half (am guessing) the time span between the initial flights at aggressive map power settings and the accident.


it was not Mr. Levits

BMarsh

[First time Juke]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

I wouldn't mess with the primary structure.

Read Bob Hoover's book "Forever Flying" for some hair-raising dive-testing stories.

I wouldn't either mess with it. H-model was lighter + slimmer and had thinner wingfoil etc.

60 years of aerodynamic developement is also hard to neglect ? Flying tail in a high power piston aircraft is of course something that would have to be studied very carefully before adapting.

Where could one get that Hoover Forever Flying book book ?

[Peashooter]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

I wouldn't either mess with it. H-model was lighter + slimmer and had thinner wingfoil etc.

60 years of aerodynamic developement is also hard to neglect ? Flying tail in a high power piston aircraft is of course something that would have to be studied very carefully before adapting.

Where could one get that Hoover Forever Flying book book ?

It's a great read!

http://www.amazon.ca/Forever-Flying-Bob-Hoover/dp/067153761X

[Bill Marsh]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

John Slack

I remember years ago thath the H and later g? variants that were being moth balled , etc...... all of them, some of them or whatever... were cut up in certain places so as not allowing them to be repaired for flying status in the future (the wing box, spar areas were sawed , gouged or sectioned and or remmved........ heard this ago.....10 / 15 year old information.


Das es true?


BMarsh

[speeddemon]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

I just have to relate a story about all the talk about using an H model to modify for racing. Back when Ralph Payne was modifying Precious Metal for Gary Levitz, making all sorts of changes that would make the D model more 'H-like', and the plane was "Ralphed" (i.e. in a million pieces on the hangar floor) Ron Fortune, who was one of Ralph's 'hanger kids' asked Ralph 'why don't we just USE an H-model?'

And in typical Ralph fashion, peering over the top of his mirrored sunglasses, his reply was "Mah boy....if that had been possible, we wouldn't have been in this situation to start with...."

[spacegrrrl]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

Actually two comments.

I think the MA II as a "460 MPH" airplane would be correct based on the the relatively non-agressive plan for the Griphon.

Building a Mustang from plans is a definite possibility. People at one time or another have built literally every piece of one from scratch. I was told some of the more challenging things are the engine bed, castings and surprisingly getting the correct alloys and heat treatment for key structural parts. It's interesting to note that there are enough people reproducing Spitfire assemblies that you can now build a totally "new" Spit if you have the money and persistence to chase eveything down.

Michele

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

One of the things I often hear mentioned about the Lear wing was that it would have been worse on the course than the "stock" Mustang wing.. Two comments that were relayed to me by the builders during the early flights... One reportedly that Skip said... something to the effect that he'd never flown a Mustang that went faster downhill.. The other, reportedly from Gary Levitz and from members of the crew doing timing... this was that the airplane seemed to lose a lot less speed in the turns than the Mustangs...

Sad part is, we'll never really know for sure...

Was a beautiful bird sitting still or flying...

Wayne

[MRussell]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

Was a beautiful bird sitting still or flying...

And singing! What a SOUND!

[Peashooter]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

Sad part is, we'll never really know for sure...

Was a beautiful bird sitting still or flying...

Wayne

Kinda like the girl (or guy, for Dasher and Chix Fly) that got away -- if only!

[KB Adkins]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

Unfortunately, I never was able to see MA-II in flight. Did it sound like Precious Metal? I made it a point this year to stop and soak in the sight and sound of PM every time Ron B. came around the pylons. Impressive indeed

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

Unfortunately, I never was able to see MA-II in flight. Did it sound like Precious Metal? I made it a point this year to stop and soak in the sight and sound of PM every time Ron B. came around the pylons. Impressive indeed

They sound pretty much alike, at least the few times that Ron has pushed it up a bit.

There's a couple of old files on this page... CLICK HERE

Look for the audio clip "Bob Hannah And Sherman Smoot Double Mayday Race Control Audio" .. right after Bob says "five's a mayday" there's sort of a howling sound with a growl right after... that's what she sounded like at a good clip..

On same page, there's a really crappy video capture.. (done on a very primitive laptop with a really crappy capture card) that has a lot better rendition of the sound... look for the clip under "AWESOME VALLEY OF SPEED ACTION!!!"

There's a really sexy sounding taxi video/audio, same page.. under "Action On The Flightline!" at about 2:10 into it.. Gary pushes it up a bit to get moving, then turns away... reducing power as he gets it moving.. the sound that engine made as it turned the stacks towards us... very cool!

SOMEWHERE! I have these videos on Hi8mm tapes.. I now have the computing power and such to do justice to them... *if* after several moves, I can ever find them!

I'll have to run them through my Sony video camera... which is a digital but will accept anaolg Hi8's...

In that same archive, I've got stuff from as far back as the mid to late 80's when I first got a vid camera..

I'd really like to dig in and get some of that stuff up... some nice walks through the pits, full races, etc...

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

EXCELLENT example of the 100 things that are going on for Race Control during a race. I've been lucky enough to sit with them for a race and am amazed at how much they do -- and how "all knowing" they are.

Thanks for locating and sharing these clips.

Yer welcome.. I used to do only video.. for years.. Then I started to run race control in the background on a recorder in my camera bag once I started shooting stills.

I still try to do it but usually get sidetracked.

Along with admiring race control's... "control", I'm particularly impressed with both the immediacy of Sherman's voice with his "Race 86maydaymayday" as far as he knew, he could have been well and truly on fire and he was making a mad grab at getting down to land on one four... and with the utter calm of Hannah's voice, who had basically just woken up with his head pinned to his toes and his hand shoving the throttle fully forward after his abrupt pullup (involuntary)

Sherman's grab for ground, from where I was (VOS) looked like total desperation and I thought for sure he was a goner.. (at the moment, I figured he was getting burned and just wanted it down, period!)

Didn't turn out all *that* bad but could have been much MUCH worse for both guys!

Pilot gods were smiling that day big time!

[FENCELINER]

Re: MA-II Speed Potential

Unfortunately, I never was able to see MA-II in flight. Did it sound like Precious Metal? I made it a point this year to stop and soak in the sight and sound of PM every time Ron B. came around the pylons. Impressive indeed

VOS and taxi