British Response?

[speeddemon]

Re: British Response?

I would be curious to see the highest speeds of a Centaurus Sea Fury, if you do get to look them up. I know they were never really gold contenders (unless others broke). I'd like to know how they compare to the basic 3350 convsrions, not the more elaborate ones like Spirit of Texas with the cowl intake, or Fury with the unique exhust ejectors. Southern Cross might be an apt comparison. I'd also love to know more about what racing mods were applied to the Centaurus back in those days, if any. If there weren't many, then a Centaurus Sea Fury compares pretty favorably to a stock or near-stock Mustang, it seems to me.

Of the very top of my head, the best 'finish' by a Centaurus powered Sea Fury (aside from the two victories in the distance races by Miss Merced) was a second place at the '73 Mojave race by Baby Gorilla...but that was a relatively small field and even Shelton's winning speed was only in the 370-380 mph range.

I'm trying to remember something that maybe Frank Sanders said...or heck, even Sherm Cooper said way back when...that the Sea Fury airframe was great, but the limitation was in the engine because there really WEREN'T any modifications you could do to it for more horsepower. Remember...Kerch and Cooper had plans to put a -4360 on Miss Merced clear back in 1971. They just never got that far because of the crash at Mojave, followed by Cooper's fatal accident.

[Ken Dwelle]

Re: British Response?

The "pig" comment made me chuckle. These are maximum level speed performance figures for the fast piston fighters. These are stock, in military trim.

Spitfire 378
Nakajima KI-84 392
FW-190 408
P-38 414
F-8F 421
P-47D 426
P-51D 437
F4U-4 446
Sea Fury 460

And for grins:
F-7F 460
F-82 461

Yes, I know the thread is about race performance, but perhaps "Pig" is a mis-characterization.

Ken

[Mike51]

Re: British Response?

The "pig" comment made me chuckle. These are maximum level speed performance figures for the fast piston fighters. These are stock, in military trim.

Spitfire 378

Maybe for an early mark. This document from flight testing of a Griffon-engined Mk XIV shows a top speed of 448 mph

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-XIV-ads.jpg

Interestingly enough, this comparison chart shows the Hornet I to have a top speed of some 470 mph. Now wouldn't one of those be a sight coming round the pylons!

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14speedchart.jpg

[Bill Marsh]

Re: British Response?

Fuzzy history, in my head, daa-ooh .....on the importing of 24? sea furies from Irak in the 80's.

Any one remember the details, "where are they now"....


Blew my mind when i heard Getchell's light off at the nut tree!!!


BM

[SpinB]

Re: British Response?

I the words of a, once famous, cartoon character...

".....fortunately, I keep my feathers numbered for just such an emergency!..."

I stand corrected...
Sierra Bravo..departing the pattern...

[sierra fox]

Re: British Response?

Shouldnt the Me 109 be on this list?

[speeddemon]

Re: British Response?

Fuzzy history, in my head, daa-ooh .....on the importing of 24? sea furies from Irak in the 80's.

Any one remember the details, "where are they now"....


Blew my mind when i heard Getchell's light off at the nut tree!!!


BM

I believe you're referring to when Dave Tallichet imported 18 (I think that was the number) Furies from Iraq back in the 1970's?

Virtually all of those airframes have been returned to the air, if I'm not mistaken.

[Ken Dwelle]

Re: British Response?

Shouldnt the Me 109 be on this list?

398 Mph

[Bill Marsh]

Re: British Response?

Thanx Speed D

Was on the prior web site i believe , pylon1, that the real demise for the bristol was ....... $2M ?? to reverse engineer the sleeves via the investment casting route.


tuff call for such a beautiful motor



BM

[John]

Re: British Response?

Thanx Speed D

Was on the prior web site i believe , pylon1, that the real demise for the bristol was ....... $2M ?? to reverse engineer the sleeves via the investment casting route.


tuff call for such a beautiful motor



BM

I would concur...
One year we got to talking to a gentleman from the UK who owns a Sea Fury(in the McDonald's near Stead no less). I believe his name was John Bradshaw(I would say Ken Dwelle knows him from the 2000 Critical Mass team). He suggested there was quite a bit of research on the Bristol Centaurus into metallurgy and such -a knowledge which many have forgotten in this day(or do not understand), but that it was quite reliable if one didn't oil starve it.

Anyone know how Mr. Bradshaw is doing?

[Mike51]

John Bradshaw's Fury

The aeroplane is still active, now based at Bournemouth. John doesn't have a current Display Authorisation (DA) from the CAA, so its very few public appearances at airshows over the past few years have been static only.

It's been advertsed for sale several times over the past few years, with no takers as yet AFAIK.

[Mike51]

Sleeve valves

A lot of work was done by the late Paul Morgan (of Ilmor engines, builder of Mercedes F1 and Chevrolet CART engines) to manufacture new sleeve valves for the Centaurus engine. I've heard that they managed to manufacture new sleeves, but were having problems with the sleeves 'ovalling' when the holes for the valves were punched. This problem was being worked on at the time of Paul Morgan's untimely death in 2002 in 'Baby Gorilla', at which point the work was abandoned.

[MRussell]

Re: Sleeve valves

A lot of work was done by the late Paul Morgan (of Ilmor engines, builder of Mercedes F1 and Chevrolet CART engines) to manufacture new sleeve valves for the Centaurus engine. I've heard that they managed to manufacture new sleeves, but were having problems with the sleeves 'ovalling' when the holes for the valves were punched. This problem was being worked on at the time of Paul Morgan's untimely death in 2002 in 'Baby Gorilla', at which point the work was abandoned.

Which airplane was Baby Gorilla? I remember the name, but not the plane.

[Leo]

Re: British Response?

Ex Loydd Hamilton stocker. N260X if I remember.

[shadow]

Re: British Response?

The "pig" comment made me chuckle. These are maximum level speed performance figures for the fast piston fighters. These are stock, in military trim.

Spitfire 378
Nakajima KI-84 392
FW-190 408
P-38 414
F-8F 421
P-47D 426
P-51D 437
F4U-4 446
Sea Fury 460

And for grins:
F-7F 460
F-82 461

Yes, I know the thread is about race performance, but perhaps "Pig" is a mis-characterization.

Ken

And I bet, for reasons of discussion, that these are probably at a higher altitude?

Can we find any graphs like the above for all these aircraft?