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  • #31
    Re: Unlimited Weight Rule

    Dave, Its unfortunate that rules do get changed. I don't think it was a conspiracy on someones part to dismiss the efforts of anyone building a racer to compete in the Unlimited division. I can tell you that some things are out of our control. RARA has made it decision and until someone changes their mind or comes up with another race venue the rule will stand. I for one would love to see the division open for anyone that can muster into the 27 plane field for Sunday. I agree you could probably go by the Wildcat, but that's not really the issue here, and going by a 60 plus year old design airplane isn't a real accomplishment in my book. If you want the rules changed then I suggest entering discussions with RARA. I don't think anyone in the Unlimiteds really cares one way or the other as I don't. I have spoken to most of the guys and they really don't care. I would love to see something new scortching around the course. I'd race anything allowed given the chance. I would love to build a sport class plane and compete. Its just not the right time with this rule in place. I also think that if RARA does change their ruling on weight that the sport class planes would still not have a great venue in the Unlimiteds as only one or two spots in the bottom of the Bronze (maybe) would be open, one of which would be the Wildcat's. I don't know if that's really making a worthwhile statement for your cause. You'll have to be the judge on that. I don't know about you, but I don't like being behind anyone in a race. I can't imagine thinking bottom of the bronze as being a cool place to be. No one ever remembers second place AKA the first loser little own 27th. I agree that as the years go by we need to have change. I don't think the planes we are racing today are a viable design for later on down the road. I agree that the Sport Class really is part of the changing face of air racing. The issue will be when this change will occur. Right now there are still those that choose to whip on their 60 plus year old planes. Until someone in your group steps up and demonstrates a real advantage in speed/cost things will probably remain the same for the near future. Remember in the Unlimiteds our goal is to go fast, not sell plane kits. I think we have lost sight of what racing is all about here. Its the first guy across the finsih line and I didn' say it was easy or should be. If it were we would call it winning. If we were fishermen we would call it catching and that's just not the case.

    Matt J

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    • #32
      Re: Unlimited Weight Rule

      Just from a fan's point of view: When the weight limit was first introduced, I was disappointed that the division would never see the sports move up.

      Now a couple years later, the sport guys are making some really sweet noises themselves and the competition has grown to the level that the anticipation of what's going to happen next year is truly eclipsing the off season drama of the Unlimiteds in some ways.

      I can't think of a more anticipated sport race than this year's "chia-pet" versus "blue by you" race!

      From the moment I heard Parker's airplane lashed to the fence post outside his hangar on Friday (pre race week) when we first got there, I was convinced that this was going to be an interesting year..

      OK... I'm gonna cut this short because readying what you guys have to say is FAR more interesting than my words.. Just wanted to interject what it feels like seeing it all from the ground.

      Wayne
      PS via edit....
      I WOULD like to see the sport class rules either modified or an "Unlimited Light" expansion division created so that these innovative "one off" airplane would have a place to compete.
      Wayne Sagar
      "Pusher of Electrons"

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      • #33
        Re: Unlimited Weight Rule

        Wayne, I totally agree with you. I think there needs to be another race division for the up and coming Sports Division Unlimiteds. Then down the road when they build something that can go 8 laps at 500 MPH carry all the liquids and finish they too can compete with the Unlimited's and we'll have a race for everyone to enjoy. Until then we will have to be content with 60 year old planes with 3-4000 HP doing that very thing.

        Matt J

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        • #34
          Re: Unlimited Weight Rule

          Originally posted by Matt Jackson
          ...when they build something that can go 8 laps at 500 MPH carry all the liquids and finish they too can compete with the Unlimited's...Matt J
          Didn't see many Unlimited's do that this year.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Unlimited Weight Rule

            Every year can't be a record setter. No one said this was easy either.

            Matt J

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            • #36
              Re: Unlimited Weight Rule

              . I don't know about you, but I don't like being behind anyone in a race. I can't imagine thinking bottom of the bronze as being a cool place to be.
              Matt J[/QUOTE]

              when they started the project the goal was to see if a garage built aircraft could run in the bronse race. to accomplish that I think would be cool and 27th place would be a win.
              imho
              dave
              www.davemorss.com

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              • #37
                thinking about.

                How many currently produced powerplants are capable of powering a racer within the todays unlimited rules?

                Where does this lead us?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Unlimited Weight Rule

                  I have been following this thread with great interest and ive decided that i should make a comment. Having looked at the unlimiteds over the last couple of years, especially since MA II departed this world, i thought MA II was a really brave step in modern racing in the fact that it had very little mustang in it yet it looked mustang. I think if Unlimiteds are to survive, then scratch built racers like MA II, Tsunami, the Pond Racer should be encouraged ( i know, not the best choices, but they were the scratch builts that came to mind). I think that a minimum weight limit is a good idea in that it encourages well built racers. I think that Matt Jacksons and Dave Morss suppport of a class like an Unlimited Lights is a great start, if the likes of blue thunder can race and compete in that class then an opportunity to maybe step to Unlimited bronze could be encouragement for development of lighter racers with modern technology that can safely compete with the sea furies, bearcats and mustangs. Dave Morss's comment that when he flew the original Thunder Mustang in qualifying in 97, that it felt as good or maybe a little better than a P-51 in wake, i think that is enough encouragement to maybe use PRS next year to with safety experts, cameras in plane, then run some of the top Sport Golds on course with the Unlimiteds and see what happens. Only a couple of suggestions from NZ.
                  race fan, photographer with more cameras than a camera store

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Unlimited Weight Rule

                    I am glad Matt Jackson, Dave Morss, and Valdo Lenoch have "weighed in" on this subject. I have not air raced, but want to in the biplane class. I believe there is a picture in John Tegler's book "Gentlemen, You have a race" which shows Art Vance in a Seafury trying to recover from wake turbulence. I think he was flying a Baby Gorilla. Last year, Jeff Lo had a "very interesting" encounter with wake turbulence in the biplane class. I believe Jeff bent the seat in his airplane. It is a wild video. These two instances were within a class. My concern is safety, safety, safety. So here is what I propose, let a qualified sport class pilot request a "waiver" to the unlimited weight rule. Then come to PRS and fly with the unlimiteds to prove they can be safe. If they pass, then let the pilot decide sport or unlimited.

                    Keith Doyne

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                    • #40
                      Re: Unlimited Weight Rule

                      Originally posted by Sky Critter
                      Any pumped fuel available by sanctioning RARA
                      What are these pumped fuels exactly?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Unlimited Weight Rule

                        Originally posted by Lowell
                        Kevin,

                        Any rumored venues for 2007?
                        Only rumors . We are trying to get at least some NXT demo races on the board to show the world how cool a competitive race with simlar ac would be. No confirmed sites yet. Stay tuned, we are Relentless!
                        http://www.kevineldredge.com
                        http://www.myairport.com
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Unlimited Weight Rule

                          What are these pumped fuels exactly?
                          I don't know for sure what exactly that refers to but I'd guess it means no custom blends.
                          Sky Critter

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Unlimited Weight Rule

                            Jon at the Thunderbolt Lycoming booth was pretty vocal about there being a Super-Sport class next year, with a 1000 c.i. limit. That's why the 720 powered NXT was there. I don't know if the kit requirement is being considered.

                            Chris

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Unlimited Weight Rule

                              A new "super' sport class would make the races a bit more fair for the slower sport-class planes, just as the RACING biplane class was created in the 80's for all the faster, modern biplanes like the Amsoil Racer.

                              Doing so made it more fair for the standard sport biplanes, by giving them their own class to race in.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Unlimited Weight Rule

                                The "5 kits" requirement should also be dropped for a new "Super Sport" class to allow the one-off designs to compete.
                                Sky Critter

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