When did it happen?

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: When did it happen?

Or you get the IMAX movie people to film a movie about Reno and put it in theaters for all to see, or how about getting a Reno Racing video game to distribute. or?
Tom
Northern California

I max movie scrapped after 9/11 and the video game is ok but needs refinement.

[Sparrow]

Re: When did it happen?

Who needs sponsors for the planes? Every single one of the warbird owners, with the possible exception of Lyle, is a very wealth, successful business person capable of underwriting their own program. THEY DON'T NEED US, the fans or the sponsors. There is absolutely no chance that warbird ownership, even of highly modified race planes will ever be anything but the province of the extremely wealthy. A sponsor for these extremely wealthy men only serves to defray costs which most, if not all of them, were prepared to assume in the first place.

I don't know were you get your information about the WEALTH of these Unlimited teams. But I know many of these men and I am here to tell you that they are not all wealthy with the sole exception of "Lyle Shelton". With out the sponsors there are alot of teams that would not make it to Reno. They do need the help that they are able to get from the few who are will to help them out. Why do you think the teams are volunteer because with out that they would not be able to pull this racing off. Do you know all the owners or is this just your perception of people that are able to obtain a WWII bird. You want to tell Dan Martin or Stu Eberhardt that they are so wealthy that don't need sponsor money well let me know when you do and I will bring the Video because that is something that alot of poeple would like to see.

[Eric Martin]

Re: When did it happen?

Did you just say "have the sponsers give the money to the races"? and these race teams do not need the money, or just a drop in the bucket? MarkB, please enlighten all of us and give us the source of all your information. If this is true, I have been a millionaire all this time, I just didn't know it. Oh thank you MarkB for informing our team that we don't need any sponser money, that really lightens my work load. I must admit I feel terrible that I have been taking money that should have been going to the down and out (RARA). I more thing.....could you tell me where all of this money is? I've looked around the hanger and can't seem to find it!

[Leo]

Re: When did it happen?

FNG,
The idea of point series racing has always been my pipe dream. Again, it would spur broader interest. Bring racing to more people. Interest sponsers for both events and teams and bring on the media. It would probably add more aircraft to the group in the long run as locals who don't bother with the trip to Reno would probably compete in the slower classes for the fun of it.
The problems with volunteer teams, equipment, etc. would be worked out by those that wanted to compete on a series level.
"Reno National Championship" would be just that.
Problem is, it has'nt happened in 41 years, how can it now?

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: When did it happen?

I don't know were you get your information about the WEALTH of these Unlimited teams. But I know many of these men and I am here to tell you that they are not all wealthy with the sole exception of "Lyle Shelton". With out the sponsors there are alot of teams that would not make it to Reno. They do need the help that they are able to get from the few who are will to help them out. Why do you think the teams are volunteer because with out that they would not be able to pull this racing off. Do you know all the owners or is this just your perception of people that are able to obtain a WWII bird. You want to tell Dan Martin or Stu Eberhardt that they are so wealthy that don't need sponsor money well let me know when you do and I will bring the Video because that is something that alot of poeple would like to see.

I was waiting for that one. Well said. Dan and Stu are perfect examples.

[MarkB.]

Re: When did it happen?

Of all the things to get flamed for. . . .

Yeah, I think I can pretty categorically state that anyone with a P-51, hangered, annualed and ready to fly is wealthy. My simple test -- If I wanted to buy, maintain and race a P-51, what would it cost me? Now are some owners wealthier than others, sure. I am certainly not belittling anyone's effort. Geez.

I'm not saying eliminate the sponsorship of an aircraft, but the question was about growth and direction of the sport. I think Wayne asked what could be done immediately. If Reno (or Tucson or Tunica) announced tomorrow that 1st place Unlimited was worth $1M next year, do you think there might be a few more race motors ordered? Do you think Shockwave, American Spirit, Frostbite, Star Dart, Red Baron II and Tsunami II might have some impetus to proceed? Do you think that some people might start thinking outside the unlimited box?

I do.

[mayday51]

Re: When did it happen?

I'll ask again,

Are theese races a series ?

Every press release and other "officio" thing I have read shows them as three separate air races.

Now where do we get "a series" ?

What are the terms of this "race series ?



As for now I will enjoy the races as they come,weather or not I am able to attend.


2) Horse power limiting....

take a close look at any "spec" race venue.....
they "boys" with the bucks still run at the front.
(yes some lesser financed teams run well,usually at the expense of
volenteer time !)..

.........Yes spec fuel would be a "good" limiter for power
.....given a displacement limit or weight per cubic inch factor.


The desire to see truely unlimited racing has always been a keen draw.
Yes it costs ...Lots!....


........We have three "spec" classes now, and the racing is fantastic through-out all three !...

......The Sports class is more of aa "stock appearing" type class....
and does and will allow quite a bit of development. (to the rules limits)

Ya say ya want faster,
more innovative?
less expensive?

.......self contradictory ....to a point......
less expense than an all out unlimited,
faster than sports or spec classes...
something with fan appeal....

I'll call for "Unlimited Lights" again.....

.......split the weights.......mebe 3200-5500#...
.....open cube limit...
....open fuel....
.......no min production numbers...

........I think this would give a chance to get some hot sports and some
orphan planes a place to run, and from watching what they (the racers)
have done untill now would provide quite an exciting "show/race"...


....for now lets enjoy what we have been blessed with,
and do try to share it so it grows !


end of rant

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: When did it happen?

First you make all three races a series with Reno being the championship as it always has.

Ding Ding Ding.... FNG.. .I think you've hit on about what I've been trying to get to..

It would involve... voluntary throttle reductions or... full on effort at the races OTHER than Reno.. Dependent on how much money someone has or wants to/can spend on the "season"...

The system would certainly have to be set so that it would entice the racers like Tiger, Lyle, Mike Brown, Rhino, Dan Martin, Bill Rogers, Sanders Bros and others to come out and play in order to gain points. Some of those guys can run pretty much full power wherever they go, day in and day out, and that might well give those guys somewhat of an advantage at courses other than Reno..

That would tighten up the finishes, maybe put Furias in front at one, Dreds at another.. .maybe Danny would pull it off.. maybe Button...

Point being, the guys would know, break at Tunica, Tucson, (or elsewhere) and making Reno might be out of the question.. so they're going to have to develop a "season" strategy....

First couple of "seasons" are going to be leaps of faith on the part of the racers, as the huge sponsorship, if it can be gotten, is not going to come right away...

But... savvy racers can beat the bushes if they want to do the legwork.. like hit up the local restaurants, car dealers, WHATEVER in the towns where the event is to be held... airplanes like Danny's Mustang, Furias and Dreds would have another advantage there.. "SPONSOR RIDES!" for incentive..

This CAN all happen and may well happen..

We sure have a good head start these days!

So.. who's gonna start planning for Tucson??

[Smee Again]

Re: When did it happen?

"One more thing.....could you tell me where all of this money is? I've looked around the hanger and can't seem to find it!"

Geez Eric, how could you miss it? You know those 7 race motors Dan has in his hangar? The money's behind the third one from the left. Do I have to account for everything around here?

SA

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: When did it happen?

You know Wayne after they figure out what classes are running you could test the idea by doing a fantasy air race league on the web site. I would put down a $100 just to see how it played out.

[Unregistered]

Re: When did it happen?

They(Red Bull Air Race)have embraced the easily built, low cost, replacable, non-warbirds.

Glenn;

Low cost and aerobatic show planes do not go in the same sentence.

BIll Kohler

[Propellerhead]

Re: When did it happen?

The Red Bull "Air Race" is not air racing. It's the "X-Games" of aviation. Period.

Rob

[jarrodeu]

Re: When did it happen?

The Red Bull "Air Race" is not air racing. It's the "X-Games" of aviation. Period.

Rob

lol. Very true!

Jarrod

[CoastieAux]

Re: When did it happen?

They(Red Bull Air Race)have embraced the easily built, low cost, replacable, non-warbirds.

Glenn;

Low cost and aerobatic show planes do not go in the same sentence.

BIll Kohler

Bill...come on...

If you figure a Warbird costs $750K to $2.5 million (Aero trader has a Sea Fury with a centarus motor for almost $700 http://www.controller.com/listings/f...p?OHID=1082391 ), then a currently produced and readily available $250K airplane ( http://www.fcitraining.com/extra/extra_information.htm ) would be considered "low cost" in comparison. 300 HP Lycoming motors can be found for a LOT less than $100K (Best I can figure by looking for 300 HP Lycoming motors online was around $15-20K...but it could be a bit more for a race motor...but not THAT much more http://www.wentworthaircraft.com/home.htm ).

The thing I was trying to say is that they are a lot more readily available, and cost a lot less than warbird racing. You could probably blow up two motors, replace a wing and still make out okay (Or maybe break even) if your winning prize money was $100K. Finding parts is not hard since they are currently made (As opposed to 60 years old), and you could buy one and race it without the idea that you are risking a historical relic.

[First time Juke]

Re: When did it happen?

Juke, remember the Miller Special F1? (237-242 mph?) Only recently did it become non competitive, and with a now wing who knows?

In fact I don't know it. Is there a pic around...is it a pusher ?