Engine discussion ?

[First time Juke]

Re: Engine discussion ?

I just found out that Hemi 426 based Top Fuels can produce 8 000 hps. How the heck is that possible ? It weighs only around 200 lbs.

[Race5]

Re: Engine discussion ?

I just found out that Hemi 426 based Top Fuels can produce 8 000 hps. How the heck is that possible ? It weighs only around 200 lbs.

The power comes from the fuel. They run 95% Nitromethane at flow rates of several hundred gallons a minute at full throttle. It could NEVER be used in an aircraft as the lifespan of one of those engines is measured in seconds.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Engine discussion ?

The power also comes from massive pressurization, via supercharger(s) and/or turbocharging. The top fuelers run HUGE levels of boost, up to 50 PSI. The more air AND fuel you can cram into the cylinders, the more power you can make.

The fuel pump puts out about 400 pounds per square inch just to be able to inject it into the cyinders quickly enough.

They also use a lot of nitrous-oxide boost, to increase the amount of oxygen in the fuel/air mixture.

The fastest cars burn 4 to 5 GALLONS of fuel just during that 4+ second 1/4-mile run, so there's no way an aircraft would be able to carry enough fuel for a full race anyway!

It's amazing to think that just ONE CYLINDER of a top fuel funnycar's V8 produces something like 750 horsepower all by itself...Rare Bear's 4000hp 18 cylinder engine makes about 220 hp at best ber cyl.

[First time Juke]

Re: Engine discussion ?

How about an air cooled v-8 like here the TATRA made in Checkoslovakia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8_engine

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Why not? They already have opposed-8 cylinder air-cooled engines in aircraft, like the Lycoming IO-720.

http://www.lycoming.com/engines/series/720-series-engines.html

[First time Juke]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Why not? They already have opposed-8 cylinder air-cooled engines in aircraft, like the Lycoming IO-720.

http://www.lycoming.com/engines/seri...s-engines.html

Cool...really cool. I wonder if that could be enhanced to go safely at 800-1000 hp ?

In a racer that engine could mean this ?

Dart was supposed to be some 12 ft longer and 3000 hp stronger.

http://aero-comlab.stanford.edu/Papers/AIAA-2000-4341-839.pdf

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Cool...really cool. I wonder if that could be enhanced to go safely at 800-1000 hp ?

In a racer that engine could mean this ?

Dart was supposed to be some 12 ft longer and 3000 hp stronger.
http://aero-comlab.stanford.edu/Pape...0-4341-839.pdf

Don't forget weight in your specs. That big Lyc weighs 600 lbs alone!

[First time Juke]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Don't forget weight in your specs. That big Lyc weighs 600 lbs alone!

I know AD.

I have 1530 lbs to go...in a plane that is only 17 ft long.

But you might be right..if I use 800 hp the increased speed do need really strong structure or/and really genius one.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Here's an engine that may interest you. $200,000 per engine though.

http://www.traceengines.com/

the Trace V-8 engine represents an evolution in engine selection.

The turbocharged, liquid-cooled engine improves operational performance by increasing speed, range, and gross weight without increasing operational cost; TRACE Engines estimates that with the combined lower cost to purchase, repair, and overhaul, operators can save 35% to 50%.

As Czarnecki explains, while a turbine engine displays constant power degradation as altitude increases, the turbocharged TRACE V-8 maintains cruise power all the way up with an estimated 600hp maximum takeoff and 500hp maximum continuous; an equivalent turbo prop engine would need to be rated as much as 1,000 horsepower at sea level to match the TRACE engine’s output at altitude. The result is an average 27 gallons per hour fuel rate, less than 30% than the fuel rate of an equivalent powered turbine engine.

Currently, typical installations can be found in singles with gross weights up to 6,000 lbs and twins up to 12,500 lbs. The starting price remains at $200,000 for an engine package, with total installation costs varying due to time and labor. TRACE Engines LP is located in Midland, Texas where its production facilities are able to produce around 100 engines a year for over 40,000 potential aircraft retrofit opportunities.

[First time Juke]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Here's an engine that may interest you. $200,000 per engine though.

http://www.traceengines.com/

Really cool lookin engine but since it need a radiator it is too large system for my small design. Air cooled IO-720 sounds good for racing. How pricy are they ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycoming_IO-720

Looks like 70 000 usd for used one.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Looks like Kevin's (gonna use, or is using, or WAS going to use) one of those Trace V8s in his next racer:

TRACE Engines LP to Power Kevin Eldredge's new Nemesis NXT


Kevin Eldredge, SuperSport competitor in the Reno Air Races and one of the fastest men in airborne motorsports, announced today that he has accepted the sponsorship of TRACE Engines, LP., of Midland, Texas. The TRACE V-8 will power a new Nemesis NXT that Kevin will build with Andy Chiavetta of Aerochia, who has built Sport champions and provides go-fast carbon graphite components for Lancairs.


"I am absolutely thrilled that I will be the first to use the TRACE V-8 power in a race plane, and my next Nemesis NXT will show the community what good American V-8 power can do in a modern airframe," said Eldredge, to a group of reporters at the Reno Air Races.


"We are excited to sponsor Kevin and the new TRACE Engine Racer. His background, experience, knowledge, and his competitive spirit are perfect for this sponsorship/partnership. We look forward to working with Kevin over the next year, until we see the machine publicly at Reno and airshows next year," said TRACE COO David Czarnecki.


TRACE Engines LP manufacturers the FAA Certificated, 600 horsepower, 495 cubic inch, turbocharged V-8. The powerplant for the TRACE Engine Racer will be modified to produce additional horsepower and be packaged specifically for installation in the NXT.

Note that this article is dated September 14, 2008. Is Kevin flying behind a Trace now, or building a plane for one? No mention of it on his website. Maybe the deal fell through?


P.S.....If he can make one work in an NXT, Juke, then it should work in yours. The airframes are of similar size. If you want to race it eventually, you'll need that extra 200 ponies for Super-sport class.

[First time Juke]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Looks like Kevin's (gonna use, or is using, or WAS going to use) one of those Trace V8s in his next racer:


Note that this article is dated September 14, 2008. Is Kevin flying behind a Trace now, or building a plane for one? No mention of it on his website. Maybe the deal fell through?

P.S.....If he can make one work in an NXT, Juke, then it should work in yours. The airframes are of similar size. If you want to race it eventually, you'll need that extra 200 ponies for Super-sport class.

For what I can see the tractor vs. pusher of this kind examples I am inclined to predict that a really small pusher with mid engine needs ½ the hp to reach same speeds than a tractor.

There is a one exception to this rule...it seems to be Jon Sharp and his entire NEMESIS lineage. They all seem to "bang on through with ludicrous" speeds albeit being tractor lay-out planes.

Planes that I refer to are Sierra Sue S-1, Lear Fan 2100 and Gallaudet Bullet Pusher and Lars Giertz VMaxProbe.

So I may not need a 100 000 dollar engine to go 400 mph. I possibly can do it with ( or someone else can ) 50 - 60 000 usd engine.

I have had a change to get a new job so the changes to actually build something have become better by 200%..

Happy New Year 2010 folks !

[First time Juke]

Re: Engine discussion ?

So I may not need a 100 000 dollar engine to go 400 mph. I possibly can do it with ( or someone else can ) 50 - 60 000 usd engine.

Make it 14 500 usd engine ( 10 300 € )...

http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/sale/2235-jabiru-5100-sale.html

[Race5]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Since top fuel engines were mentioned earlier, I wanted to throw this up. This video shows the amount of fuel used in ONE of 8 cylinders during a top fuel pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5lrMWszCR4

[jimmyboyB50]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Hi All,
I am an aviation engine guy and have built F1 engines in the past. Please remember to KISS keep it simple s....

My thoughts have always been on the TIO/TIGO 541 series.
TIO-541 has the cam on the bottom and a very complicated accessory section and is direct drive. The benefits are higher reving 2900RPM and a very interesting oil cooled exhaust valve guide. As with most Lycoming very nice intake design. I believe its 325 HP that said with a bump up of the RPM, MP, ADI, air cooling spray, auto style fuel injection, electronic injection, and knock sensor. I would also look at the TIGO rods to see if they are stronger and a difficult task of machining the accessory case off and go electric for the accessories. You could push ~500HP. This engine is on the Beech Duke

The TIGO is geared and produces 400HP other than that they are similar. This engine is on the Piper P Navajo

A couple of years ago at Reno I asked the designer at the Lycoming tent about the idea and he agreed the 541 had more capability but said they would not build a race engine on a model that they did not plan to sell.
Good luck