Engine discussion ?

[Stevey]

Re: Engine discussion ?

By the way I would not tilt a V8 90 degrees unless it had a very efficient dry sump oiling system. The engine would be more likly to starve of oil if slanted at 90 degrees and the engine would have reduced amounts of hp due to the crank shaft having to hit the oil and push through it, it's better if the crank shaft never touches the oil in the oil pan. Thats why the old drag racers known as "gassers" used to purposely run a quart or two low of oil. Thats also why windage trays are now installed in race cars. Dry sump oiling systems prevent race cars from starving of oil when they corner hard and it also eliminates the oil sloshing around in the oil pan, there are more advantages but they are soley for auto racing. Hope this helps!

Steve

[LoveOldPlanes]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Just Thoughts:

Why try and modify anything automotive and watercooled? Anybody remember there will be a complete cooling system to add to the aircraft in addition to engine weight? To cap all, think of all the machining expense....that's going to rack up the cost too.

How about this: Base your engine on as many existing aircraft engines parts as possible to keep cost down, and to make the engine affordable to actualy run and repair. Use cylinders from a Lycoming or Contiental, but instead of an opposed engine, build a radial center section to mount everything on. You'ed have readliy available cylinders, pistons and rods, pushrods, rocker arms, valave springs and keepers....you get the idea. Machine your master rod assembly to mate to existing rods. Stack up as many cylinders as you can cool and use existing gear reduction parts also. Everyone knows you can get better overlap from a round engine, so you are ahead of the game there also. You need more power, add a row. You could run a nice pressure carb that already exists to juice it all. Build your own baffles and cowling to match, add in a nice turbo-compounding system to regain some lost heat energy.

How's that sound?
Randolph

[First time Juke]

Re: Engine discussion ?

I do know that some hemi's in funny car's CAN make up to 2600hp, but I cant imagine they are the most reliable engines in the world.

I think this sounds like we might have ourselves a converstion with different views.

I know very little about aviation engine making, but I have about 15 model engines of various types.

BEDEs used to have japanese aluminum car engines and those flew fast.

Hemis are more rugged in construction I assume ?





Here an insert from the link I passed on the previous page;




[edit] LSX
At the 2006 SEMA show, GM Performance Parts introduced the LSX engine, an all-new cast-iron racing block based on the LS7 engine. It was designed with help from drag racing legend Warren Johnson, and despite being based on GM's small-block design, it offers displacements ranging from 364 cubic inches to 511 cubic inches (4.25" Bore x 4.5" Stroke) and is capable of withstanding 2500 bhp. This block incorporates two extra rows of head-bolt holes per bank for increased clamping capacity. The six bolt steel main caps are the same ones used on the LS7 engine. The engine debuted at the auto show in a customized 1969 Camaro owned by Reggie Jackson. The LSX will be available starting the second quarter of 2007, set to be available in authorized dealerships and retailers on March 31, 2007.[2]

[First time Juke]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Sorry if I stepped on any toes, just saying what I would do.

Really no need to apologize. Give me time to think and react.

[Stevey]

Re: Engine discussion ?

I agree that to some using an automotive engine may be the wrong way to go. BUT I believe it is much more cost effective, easier to get parts for and possibly create more power using an automotive engine. Machineing does not actually cost that much in comparison to some of the other bills included in attempting to design and build a air racer.

Juke, You are right the LSX block from Chevy is going to be the ultimate block. As a matter of fact Im going to be buying one for my camaro. Yes the LSX can easily withstand up to 2500hp and more {2500 is only a factory recommended stop point }. The only problem is that block has not been realeased as of yet {a few more months I believe} and we have no idea what kind of "growing pains" that block may occur. We wont know if that block is known to crack until we get a few top fuel chevy dragsters or funny cars out there pushing 2500-3000hp with that block. But I do agree it will make one wild engine when done up right!! I recommended a hemi because they are a proven design thats been around since the 60's {I believe maybe more or less} and since then most all of your high power monsters you see are running hemi's, so we know its a strong platform to build from. The hemi holds a reputation, the LSX has a reputation to START. Your right hemi's do have a very rugged construction but who knows what the LSX may bring???

Cooling a car engine can be done quiet easily and need not have "heavy cooling systems", you just need to be creative. As a matter of fact I believe 30% of an aircraft's drag is due to cooling systems and ducts in the cowling, for my engine in my sport class design I have designed a system that shouldnt much in the way of drag inducing cooling ducts if any at all. You just gotta think outside box. .

So are you looking into fuel injection or carbureted? What kind of fuel will you run? I assume all planes must run whatever is on the field? What octane would that be? Also still interested in the weight and hp/kg ratio your looking into. Id like to know as much about your project as your willing to tell. Even if its just for me to think about, if you want my feedback Id be glad to give it.

hahaha take all the time you need my friend!

Steve

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Something you have to remember about drag racing engines.....They only have to produce those high power levels for a few seconds.

Likewise with hot rod engines. You might get 1000 hp out of that big block Ford for a quick run down the boulevard, but try keeping it running at redline for a 20-minute drive. Odds are, something is going to break.

You simply cannot compare car horsepower with aircraft horsepower, since aircraft engines work in a completely different environment and suffer from more severe vibrations.

.

[Stevey]

Re: Engine discussion ?

I agree with what you said. That would be why you would obviously have to tailor the engine to such an application. Also if you use the proper parts with the proper part it shouldnt have a problem sustaining high RPM's. Also if you properly tailor the engine to your appliation you can use a cam that would make peak hp at lower RPM levels. Even if you cant get it low enough if you keep the engine cool and it was properly built it should have no problems sustaining the RPM, you may have to sacrifice some hp by using a slightly heavier rotating assembly so they can withstand the pressures but it wont be any big amount an you may get around that if you attempt to build and test with new alloys. I mean thats what it's all about isnt it? Testing theories and seeing which ones faster and what you can do tomake something work better {faster}. As for vibrations, this can also lead back to properly tailoring the engine to what you want to do and on top of that the gear reduction box should be able to reduce a half decent amount of the vibration felt by the engine. I think it's a very possible plan to use an automotive engine to take a plane to great speeds its just that it make take some time and design considerations but then again what doesnt?

Steve

[Stevey]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Wow Juke you must be thinking hard! . I hope your plans are working out like you had planned!

Steve

[First time Juke]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Wow Juke you must be thinking hard! . I hope your plans are working out like you had planned!

Steve

Steve,

My time goes ( besides work ) 100 % to the new born baby and making garden around our new house.

I have seriously tought of giving up any further planning of any new racer in near future at least. I had few years back a serious disc problem in my spine and I think it was not treated 100 % correctly. Even if I was 100 % healthy this would be tramendous task to set a new record.

One thing I realized after having designed TS II that it was still longer than Rare Bear..newest design is more closer to Rare Bear dimension...but think about it..Tsunami, MA II, Pond Racer all failed...and those were professionals who built and designed them..would I seriously have any change even if I had the dough to do it ?

I don't think a single car engine is able to make it.


best regards,

( a former thrillseeker and today a dedicated daddy )

Juke


PS: I still try make the TS II model fly this summer with a new engine.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Heck with all that Jukka.. pix of the new member to yer family and the mommie too!

[First time Juke]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Heck with all that Jukka.. pix of the new member to yer family and the mommie too!

Here is the little princess !

I added also the pic that is behind.

[First time Juke]

Re: Engine discussion ?

...and the mom...doctor of medicine..Kirsi-Maria !

Proud Mary ( dressed up for a costume party ) !

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Engine discussion ?

LOL!! Cute kid!! Mom's gonna kill ya when she sees ya put that photo on the net ya'know...

[First time Juke]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Thanks,

Highly unlikely she's gonna surf here. Her cousin just turned a professional hockey player and appeared on the World Champ's final a week ago.
Cuter pics are at home unfortunately. She is a red head. Hair visible in our dining room below.

rgds,

Juke

[First time Juke]

Re: Engine discussion ?

Hey Steve !

I just figured that TS II is roughly 3 feet longer than a Thunder Mustang and 5 feet shorter than a P-51D Mustang. About 2 feet shorter than a Rare Bear. ( 6 feet more span than in a Thunder Mustang ).

Wonder if that is unstable at flight ?

...and don't forget...R&R is a car too...so thence a Merlin is a car engine as well !!

best regards,

Juke