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Composite props for warbird racers

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  • Composite props for warbird racers

    I know there doesn't seem to be many options for new props on warbirds, but I had seen this a while back and wondered if it would make a good racing prop. I'd think it would be lighter, being composite. One article I read said it would fully feather. I am still unclear whether they had to make their own gear reduction though. http://www.amtonline.com/article/art...ion=1&id=12401

  • #2
    Re: Composite props for warbird racers

    Originally posted by Dash View Post
    I am still unclear whether they had to make their own gear reduction though.
    'Cause it's lighter.

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    • #3
      Re: Composite props for warbird racers

      I don't think the gear reduction was changed. Maybe Morss will chime in with a PIREP.

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      • #4
        Re: Composite props for warbird racers

        The prop was mounted and flown on a P-51 Mustang (Polar Bear) for five successful flights in December. Initial results indicated improved climb and cruise performance over the metal 3-blade prop that normally pulls this P-51.

        OK, but this community wants to know how it compares to a 4-bladed prop as used on later models and current air racers.

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        • #5
          Re: Composite props for warbird racers

          The 11-foot diameter, 4-blade propellers include full feathering capability and still maintain the period look of the original steel propellers, using MTís patented natural composite structure.
          Natural composite = wood.

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          • #6
            Re: Composite props for warbird racers

            Don't you still have to play with counter weights prop has same mass just lighter tuning is in order rite???

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            • #7
              Re: Composite props for warbird racers

              MANY MOONS AGO THE COMPOSITE PROP WAS TESTED ON JOHN
              SANDBERGS STOCK MUSTANG, AS WELL AS JOE KASPEROFS "THE HEALER". WHILE ON THE STOCK MUSTANGS, THE PERFORMANCE WAS
              BETTER, BUT NOT GREAT. IN SEPTEMBER OF 91' , THE PROP WAS
              PUT ON TSUNAMI, WHILE HERE AT RENO, AND AFTER SKIP HOLM
              RAN THE AIRCRAFT UP TO 100", THERE WAS A MINOR "PORPOSING"
              EPISODE AND THE RACER WAS CLEARLY 30 MPH SLOWER THAN WITH
              THE REGULAR PADDLE BLADE. SKIP MADE A PROMT LANDING, AND
              IMEADIATLY TOLD JOHN SANDBERG, "GET THAT THING OFF THERE TONIGHT". JOHN SANDBERGS DAUGHTER SHARON,HAS THAT PROP WITH THE OTHER REMAINS OF TSUNAMI, WHICH IS NOW UNDER RESTORATION.
              I'M SURE SOME OF YOU KIDS MIGHT HAVE SOME PICTURES OF THAT SOMEWHERE.
              CHEERS ALL~GHOSTRIDER

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              • #8
                Re: Composite props for warbird racers

                the linked article has pictures, and also states that the props are designed for the P-82's that are currently under restoration, that will be why it was tested on polar bear as the P-82s used late model Allison's
                race fan, photographer with more cameras than a camera store

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                • #9
                  Re: Composite props for warbird racers

                  Originally posted by GHOSTRIDER View Post
                  MANY MOONS AGO THE COMPOSITE PROP WAS TESTED ON JOHN
                  SANDBERGS STOCK MUSTANG, AS WELL AS JOE KASPEROFS "THE HEALER". WHILE ON THE STOCK MUSTANGS, THE PERFORMANCE WAS
                  BETTER, BUT NOT GREAT. IN SEPTEMBER OF 91' , THE PROP WAS
                  PUT ON TSUNAMI, WHILE HERE AT RENO, AND AFTER SKIP HOLM
                  RAN THE AIRCRAFT UP TO 100", THERE WAS A MINOR "PORPOSING"
                  EPISODE AND THE RACER WAS CLEARLY 30 MPH SLOWER THAN WITH
                  THE REGULAR PADDLE BLADE. SKIP MADE A PROMT LANDING, AND
                  IMEADIATLY TOLD JOHN SANDBERG, "GET THAT THING OFF THERE TONIGHT". JOHN SANDBERGS DAUGHTER SHARON,HAS THAT PROP WITH THE OTHER REMAINS OF TSUNAMI, WHICH IS NOW UNDER RESTORATION.
                  I'M SURE SOME OF YOU KIDS MIGHT HAVE SOME PICTURES OF THAT SOMEWHERE.
                  CHEERS ALL~GHOSTRIDER
                  "The" composite prop?

                  As an aerodynamicist we classify props in terms of airfoil family, twist distribution, and thickness-to-chord ratios vs. radius and Mach number. Anyone who researches the design database, even the limited amount available on the web, will find many references to these parameters and none based on the material used.

                  The prop pictured in the tests mentioned could easily have been made of metal: the material was not relevant, its design was deficient. At this point in history, thousands of commuter airliners cruiseat higher Mach numbers and true air speeds than Unlimiteds at Reno. Most of these are flying with composite props.
                  Eric Ahlstrom

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                  • #10
                    Re: Composite props for warbird racers

                    I suppose a more accurate statement would have been "Many Moons ago, A composite prop was tested...".

                    Just because the older "plastic" propeller was of composite construction doesn't mean it used the same fiber and/or resin type, is of the same structural design or construction, or is of the same chord/airfoil profile as the newer tech composite prop. That's like saying all metal 4-bladed props are the same.

                    "Composite" is pretty much a generic word. Even old-school nylon cloth impregnated with fiberglass resin is a composite material.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Composite props for warbird racers

                      GHOSTRIDER the prop you speak of was designed by Skip and another engineer that I can't currently think of off the top of my head. Anyway I attached a picture and I can safely say my aunt does not have that propeller
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by LittleJR; 08-03-2011, 02:22 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Composite props for warbird racers

                        Ghostrider is confusing two different props.

                        The composite prop that Little JR posted was the Skip Holm/Bill Montagne (of Machbuster 'fame') SkyProp. That was the bright blue one that was on display in the pits in 1989, and in 1990 was 'test-fitted' for taxi-tests on Tsunami, but as soon as it was put to power in the test cell it self-destructed into a million pieces. Montagne claimed (after taking the money, of course) that it was only a mock-up prop and that it was 'never intended' to be put on a real plane for flight.

                        The scimitar-shaped prop that Tsunami flew with on Friday and Saturday of Reno '91 was made from modified S2F blades. It had been tested and didn't really do all that much, but Skip oversped the regular prop in qualifying...so while it was out being fixed, they raced with the modified prop for the first couple days. By Sunday the regular prop was fixed, and the other one was put back in the truck. Most likely that is the one that Sharon still has.
                        Last edited by Big_Jim; 08-03-2011, 02:59 PM. Reason: can't spell sometimes....

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