Another step back to normal

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Another step back to normal

I think this is pretty clear. I dont know why so many are missing this:



Trim tab was not the cause of the initial "wobble" according the the NTSB.

It is my opinion that Jimmy may have over corrected when he got into some bad air. This over correction over stressed parts of the air frame.

Maybe....or maybe not.

Truthfully, in rough air at the well-over-500mph speed he was supposedly traveling, you wouldn't need much control input to break a tab, if any. Severe aerodynamic stresses and/or flutter at those velocities can do it all by itself.

[King]

Re: Another step back to normal

I think this is pretty clear. I dont know why so many are missing this:



Trim tab was not the cause of the initial "wobble" according the the NTSB.

It is my opinion that Jimmy may have over corrected when he got into some bad air. This over correction over stressed parts of the air frame.

Big Jim, I applaud you for speaking your mind in the above post. While these men and women are incredibly brave and worthy of all the praise they earn, they are not above making mistakes, or biting off more than they can chew.

What you are also missing is that there is a difference between failure of the tab and separation of the tab.

The general public thinks that when the part falls off, that is the beginning of the problem.....when it is actually when the part fails.

The trim tab can fail and cause the initial upset, then finally fall off later on.

[IcePaq]

Re: Another step back to normal

Parts like a trim tab rarely just pop right off having no other effect than departing the plane.

The control surface to which it was mated surely received some trauma as well as the controls that actuate the trim tab.

This would happen before and while the trim tab departs the plane.

If the trim tab departs the plane and causes a 11g pull, then it's safe to say that the same trim tab being disconnected from it's actuation could cause a pull close to the same amount of Gs.

One possible scenario is the trim tab lost actuation and the plane then pulled enough Gs to remove the now non-effective trim tab.

A failure of this type at 500mph could easily have this all happen in milleseconds.

[Bob]

Re: Another step back to normal

One thing I dont see mentioned much is the weather that week. I know some of the F-1 pilots were seeing alot of turbulence, I believe one even said he measured a10g jolt. Now perhaps some of that 10g load can be attributed to excitement. Dont know, but I do know that the weather wasnt ideal for the F-1, cant imagine what it would have been like at 500+ mph.

[Sky Critter]

Re: Another step back to normal

Dont know, but I do know that the weather wasnt ideal for the F-1, cant imagine what it would have been like at 500+ mph.

Just means you get through it twice as fast!

[hm66sk]

Re: Another step back to normal

Parts like a trim tab rarely just pop right off having no other effect than departing the plane.

The control surface to which it was mated surely received some trauma as well as the controls that actuate the trim tab.

This would happen before and while the trim tab departs the plane.

If the trim tab departs the plane and causes a 11g pull, then it's safe to say that the same trim tab being disconnected from it's actuation could cause a pull close to the same amount of Gs.

One possible scenario is the trim tab lost actuation and the plane then pulled enough Gs to remove the now non-effective trim tab.

A failure of this type at 500mph could easily have this all happen in milleseconds.

Exactly

[Tibia]

Re: Another step back to normal

There was an (35 minute long) in-cockpit video posted (by someone from the Voodoo team) on utube very briefly that graphically showed the (very turbulent air) conditions around pylon 8 within a few seconds of the upset.

[KAHNZILLA]

Re: Another step back to normal

Wayne,
Thanks for the site, lets keep RACING and TALKING...

[King]

Re: Another step back to normal

Come on guys look at it correctly.

Jimmy was in a high banking left turn when suddenly something failed on the aircraft which increased his bank and also at the same time pulled HARD into the course.

This instant is when Jimmy went out cold and the airplane began to roll to the right and climb. During this climbing roll to the right, the left hand trim tab (already failed and whatever additional failures there were) came off.

The interesting part is seeing these new photos of the right hand FIXED trim tab almost fully deflected UP in one photo. This goes to show there is ALOT more going on that we have not seen or know about.

The left hand trim tab separating was an effect, not the cause.

[Race 3R]

Re: Another step back to normal

King,
Yes, the photos show some interesting things happening.

The NTSB still photos clearly show the formerly fixed right trim tab both up and down. My conclusion is that there was asymmetrical loading on the horizontal stab that caused the initial roll into the course. Possibly both tabs were fluttering. This could have been triggered by turbulence, or simply high speed. Jimmy corrected with hard right aileron and then blacked out.

Was Jason's excellent video studied frame by frame to look for horz stab deflections ( twist and flex) and possible aft fuselage twist? I heard from one witness that there was an odd sound just before the pitch up- flutter? Did anyone else hear it?

Rick

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Another step back to normal

I expect the deflection of the fixed tab was purely aerodynamic loading. The elevator was deflect further than anticipated for the speed the Ghost was traveling and the load on the tab must have been enormous. They probably should have done more than just fixing the tab with the linkage but actually "built" it into the elevator.

More than enough details to ponder for sure....

Spacegrrrl