Safety

[bearfan]

I have read so many articles and almost every post since last friday...and alot of the articles are saying the air races should continue but they should be safer.
In the 15, give or take, years I have been going to Reno I have never felt like I was in danger and this year I was obviously proven wrong.

The question I've been pondering is how could it be made safer?? Aside from a speed limit (which I personally don't think would be good) I can't think of other safety precautions.

Has anyone else thought about this??

[tjyak50]

Re: Safety

Move the deadline 100 to 250 ft north.
Permits opposite direction mayday traffic better access to 8/26.

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: Safety

Maybe not having GA & Box seats extending so far out from the Grandstands? I don't think many in the Grandstands got hurt?

[mrcraigarcher]

Re: Safety

I have to admit, I've been racking my brain over the last week and a half trying to figure out the same thing. What could make the spectators safer at the air races. I can't come up with anything conclusive. I certainly can't come up with anything based on Jimmy's accident.

In my profession, we avoid making conclusions based on 1 or very few data points like it's the plague. Doing so simply leads to incorrect adjustments to a process that may or may not be broken in the first place.

When almost every data point falls within a certain range and 1 falls out of that range, it's called an outlyer. These outlyers can almost always be attributed to a specific event that caused it to fall outside the range. Everything that I've seen leads to me to believe that Jimmy's accident was just that - an outlyer. Not only that, but even with him departing the course at the same point, speed, attitude, etc., it was a very unique sort of circumstances that led him to impact where he did.

What I'm trying to say is that it's pretty tough to say that any improvement, aside from removing the crowd entirely, will prevent another fan-involved incident. Move the crowd away and maybe a larger, heavier aircraft such as a Sea Fury impacts the crowd. Move them closer, a lighter, slower aircraft impacts the crowd.

Any time you adjust a process based on outlyer data, you run the risk of harming the process or wasting time and effort on nothing.

Yes, I'm a nerd.

[Dudewanarace]

Re: Safety

Any flying airplane, out of control, can go anywhere. You could put the stands 2 miles away and a plane could get there.

The point is, it is a rare event, and should be treated as such.

Moving the deadline North isn't going to work. Carefull work has been done showing that if a plane were to crash similar to all those that have crashed before, the current deadline works. The FAA seems to think so.

[sandramore]

Re: Safety

Any flying airplane, out of control, can go anywhere. You could put the stands 2 miles away and a plane could get there.

The point is, it is a rare event, and should be treated as such.

Agreed. Frankly, as the races were always held in as safe a manner as possible, safety being the primary concern, I don't think anything needs changing. This was an accident, and they call them that for a reason.

But that said, we're at the mercy of the NTSB and FAA.

[wingman]

Re: Safety

Excellent post, mrcraigarcher -- I agree completely with you and Dudewanarace. I feel this really was a one in a million sort of event. Pure bad luck that the airplane went where it did, with all those thousands of acres of unoccupied space at Stead. I think a 48 year safety record regarding spectators speaks for itself...

Neal

[DA9D5TA]

Re: Safety

This addresses more of the moral quotient rather than pure safety, but turn the spectators into willing participants by way of drastically increased ticket prices. Get rid of group sales of any kind. Make season tickets the minimum. If the racers aren't relying on that money, surely the hardcore fans can pay for the rest.

[Coyote Chris]

Re: Safety

I agree with Dude, Sandra, and Wingman. Statistically, the danger is in riding my bike from Spokane to Reno....not watching airplanes...you want dangerous, sit under a wing in the warbird section at OSH and watch 10,000 planes land and take off....I almost had a Bonanza in my lap this year from a dude that got into an accelerated manouver stall turning final and just put the plane down on base leg....

Death is all around us and yes, I do feel for them and their families....
36,000 people die on the highways, many because of drink and texting...
We know the risk. That is why we carry insurance and we dont sue the highway dept. We still drive.

I believe in personal responsibity, and waivers holding up in courts of law, for a change. Jack up the ticket prices, make adults sign waivers for all event tickets, and if something happens, its personal responsibility.
Make it a state law in Nevada. You sign and get hurt, its on YOUR insurance. The hotels fill cause of out of towners like me...I dont pretend to understand the economics of putting on this event, but
if people want to watch the greatest racing event in the world, it should cost more than a delux cheeseburger. Sure you want to get the locals up the hill, but its us out of towners that bring in the big bucks and I dont mind paying more. Look at what OSH costs to attend and they get 500,000 people....and they make money.... and so can this event...and this event can live....just my two cents

[Pete]

Re: Safety

Any improvement in safety will not be from modifying the race course based on the random result of this accident, but from a better understanding of the cause of this accident. The root cause that precipitated this disaster appears to be mechanical, and on the surface similar to another incedent with another racing mustang.

The point of impact was uncontrolled and random. Moving the crowd, moving the dead line, etc, will not have any real effect on safety. Understaning this type of mechanical failure will.

My opinion fwiw.

[Leo]

Re: Safety

Sadly, a result of this may be the removal of box seats and ramp seating. For no other reason than to appease some paper pushers and an uninformed public.
It is ironic that some of the people that call this sport too dangerous probably do not think twice about texting while hurtling down 395 at 70 mph...

[Frank C.]

Re: Safety

Read a quote from Ben Franklin somewhere. Something to the effect of you are not alive if you don't take some risks in life. Guess things would pretty boring if you did not take some risks to feel more alive. My two-cents. Maybe I am stupid.

Frank C.

[tjyak50]

Re: Safety

Sometimes you just have to do *something* different if you want to move on. Adjusting the course may be lip-service, but if it means Reno may continue...

Just throwing out ideas here. We can shoot them down later.

[JoeDirt]

Re: Safety

I think it's a retarded media driven frenzy that doesn't deserve an answer. One incident in almost 50 years doesn't warrant a response or rebuilding of the organization.

We deal with death from different means every day. Car wrecks, train wrecks, Auto racing. Cars are still being made, Amtrak is still running and subsidised by the government, and cars are still being raced.

It's all just a knee jerk reaction and people commenting on things they no nothing about. Like others have said, you could move the stands back a mile and that wouldn't be a gaurantee.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Safety

The accident was caused by a mechanical failure of an aircraft. There's nothing that can be done to the course nor spectator location that would fix it.


My question is: Can a P-51 be flown for a full race without using the trim tabs? I know they are useful for long flights, but are they truly necessary, or just a convenience to reduce work load? Quite a few tabs have been lost in races

If the latter case then I'd suggest barring them from the fastest planes (gold class) Gold racers would all have to be dedicated race planes, with trim tabs removed and the resulting gaps in control surfaces filled in. PERHAPS a bungee-style trim system can be substituted.


--> IF it's not humanly possible to complete a race with the trim tabs, then disregard all this "wondering"...