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True potential of the Ghost?

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  • #61
    I don't understand.....

    What I see as the problem with this thread is, the question was asked what the potential of the airplane was. Several people have come on and made fact-based statements, including myself who presented a very well-researched and documented history of the aircraft, modifications, changes in the race course, and aerodynamic theory (the post of which was 'moved' for reasons I'm still trying to understand) in an attempt to make an honest answer to that question.

    What the title of this posting should really be is "Wouldn't it have been great if....", because what I'm seeing and reading is a lot of people who only want to hear what they want to hear. If you want to believe the thing had tested at 525 mph, facts be damned, right? You'll believe what you want to believe because you liked the airplane and the woulda/shoulda/coulda. You're all convinced of 500+ mph laps and phantom practice courses in the desert. You're convinced that passing a sick Bear was making a monsterous move on the leaders...both of whom have documented lap speeds that decreased by about 10 mph per lap.

    I would be a bit more believing if the airplane had been at PRS both in 2010 and 2011 and ran lap after lap after lap at speed...then we'd all see. But it didn't. Instead we got a qualifying lap in 2010 that was disallowed because of getting lost on the race course (Don't believe me? Just take a look at the picture Bucky Dawson posted in his "Buck Shots' thread). Did anyone watch the qualifying in 2011? I did. I saw three laps following Matt Jackson in trail to find the race course at speed before attempting theirs. And ask any pilot who has been there.....tooling around a stock Mustang at 380 is a completely different world than bending a highly modified racer with a tiny (and distorted) canopy at 480 when you're trying to find/fly the course.

    Just like in my previous post which was removed, this is not being critical, it's not stepping on anyone's toes, nor is it blaming or pointing fingers. I am just pointing out facts. But again...if you believe in 525 just because 'someone told you so", I ask...would you believe Tom Camp if he claimed he'd had Air Biscuit up to 450? What would it do for Tom Camp to throw out numbers like that if they weren't true, right?

    The bottom line is, (and this opinion is shared by several pilots and crew chief's I have spoken with about the subject) "The airplane's potential was exactly what we saw...nothing more, nothing less." If you guys don't want to take facts into consideration that are presented by people who actually kind of do have an idea of what they are talking about...then do you really want to ask the question in the first place?

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: True potential of the Ghost?

      Originally posted by Acorn View Post
      I had heard a similar thing. We were sitting in the parking lot Friday, talking to people that came by. One of them had friends that lived near Minden that went out and were timing him. We heard 'multiple laps in excess of 500mph'. Would have been nice to see.
      Ummmm.....but did they have a surveyed course they were timing from?

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: True potential of the Ghost?

        Originally posted by wolfee View Post
        So this guys is saying there is a marked 10 mile oval around Minden someplace While possible, I find it unlikely.
        If anything I'm betting that the times recorded are strait line passes at speed.
        True, and they only way to do that is with a radar gun, and everyone has those in their trunks.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: I don't understand.....

          Originally posted by Big_Jim View Post
          The bottom line is, (and this opinion is shared by several pilots and crew chief's I have spoken with about the subject) "The airplane's potential was exactly what we saw...nothing more, nothing less." If you guys don't want to take facts into consideration that are presented by people who actually kind of do have an idea of what they are talking about...then do you really want to ask the question in the first place?
          But you have to admit, we really do not know what the "potential" was as it has never (and now sadly will never) been officially documented.

          But I agree the Minden folks are NOT official as there was not a properly surveyed course established there and there is not any way the common citizen can time an airplane in a straight line dash without some type of speed radar equipment available.

          So the title of the thread is appropriate, but the answer cannot be based on any facts as there are none available.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: I don't understand.....

            Yeah I'm with Brad, this kind of reminds me of a few years back when September Fury grenades a motor on the backside of it's qualifying lap. Claims of 505mph Half lap showed up and I chuckled to myself "yeah, but it BLEW UP!"
            To say that GG was going to show up and fly faster and out last 7, 5, 77, teams that have years working out the bugs and building strong teams and engine and system programs is highly unlikely.

            Originally posted by Big_Jim View Post
            What I see as the problem with this thread is, the question was asked what the potential of the airplane was. Several people have come on and made fact-based statements, including myself who presented a very well-researched and documented history of the aircraft, modifications, changes in the race course, and aerodynamic theory (the post of which was 'moved' for reasons I'm still trying to understand) in an attempt to make an honest answer to that question.

            What the title of this posting should really be is "Wouldn't it have been great if....", because what I'm seeing and reading is a lot of people who only want to hear what they want to hear. If you want to believe the thing had tested at 525 mph, facts be damned, right? You'll believe what you want to believe because you liked the airplane and the woulda/shoulda/coulda. You're all convinced of 500+ mph laps and phantom practice courses in the desert. You're convinced that passing a sick Bear was making a monsterous move on the leaders...both of whom have documented lap speeds that decreased by about 10 mph per lap.

            I would be a bit more believing if the airplane had been at PRS both in 2010 and 2011 and ran lap after lap after lap at speed...then we'd all see. But it didn't. Instead we got a qualifying lap in 2010 that was disallowed because of getting lost on the race course (Don't believe me? Just take a look at the picture Bucky Dawson posted in his "Buck Shots' thread). Did anyone watch the qualifying in 2011? I did. I saw three laps following Matt Jackson in trail to find the race course at speed before attempting theirs. And ask any pilot who has been there.....tooling around a stock Mustang at 380 is a completely different world than bending a highly modified racer with a tiny (and distorted) canopy at 480 when you're trying to find/fly the course.

            Just like in my previous post which was removed, this is not being critical, it's not stepping on anyone's toes, nor is it blaming or pointing fingers. I am just pointing out facts. But again...if you believe in 525 just because 'someone told you so", I ask...would you believe Tom Camp if he claimed he'd had Air Biscuit up to 450? What would it do for Tom Camp to throw out numbers like that if they weren't true, right?

            The bottom line is, (and this opinion is shared by several pilots and crew chief's I have spoken with about the subject) "The airplane's potential was exactly what we saw...nothing more, nothing less." If you guys don't want to take facts into consideration that are presented by people who actually kind of do have an idea of what they are talking about...then do you really want to ask the question in the first place?

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: True potential of the Ghost?

              Well we will see if fact gets deleted over fantasy again this time.

              Jarrod

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: I don't understand.....

                Originally posted by Big_Jim View Post
                Just like in my previous post which was removed, this is not being critical, it's not stepping on anyone's toes, nor is it blaming or pointing fingers.
                Removing posts is a crappy thing to do.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: True potential of the Ghost?

                  Bill Kerchenfaut called me a few minutes ago and asked me to post this on his behalf after reading this thread.

                  "Life is not the way it's supposed to be....it IS the way that it is. The way we cope with it makes us who we are."

                  We, as a collective group, will never know what the true potential of the airplane was...but the facts show what the airplane WAS able to do with what the pilot, crew, and equipment WERE ABLE TO DO AT THE TIME. (Hence the comment "The airplane's potential was exactly what we saw...nothing more, nothing less".)

                  See folks...you never know who may be 'lurking' here seeing what others are talking about.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: True potential of the Ghost?

                    First OFFICIAL lap during the race was 490+ MPH timed by the OFFICIAL TIMERS. Second Lap at around 480 mph. Next was at 475 mph and GG blew by Bear like it was standing still, and Moving up very fast on the tail feathers of VooDoo.

                    Why try to down play an all ready bad out come just for the sake of argument which in my opinion is total disrespect for not only the starter of this thread, but to GG and Jimmy and all his crew. It is like a slap in the face .

                    It was a terible loss of a great airplane and a MUCH finer human being than many here and we should all be more respectfull.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: True potential of the Ghost?

                      Originally posted by AEROBAT View Post
                      First OFFICIAL lap during the race was 490+ MPH timed by the OFFICIAL TIMERS. Second Lap at around 480 mph. Next was at 475 mph and GG blew by Bear like it was standing still, and Moving up very fast on the tail feathers of VooDoo.

                      Why try to down play an all ready bad out come just for the sake of argument which in my opinion is total disrespect for not only the starter of this thread, but to GG and Jimmy and all his crew. It is like a slap in the face .

                      It was a terible loss of a great airplane and a MUCH finer human being than many here and we should all be more respectfull.
                      Finally someone gets it, thank you

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: True potential of the Ghost?

                        Originally posted by jarrodeu View Post
                        Well we will see if fact gets deleted over fantasy again this time.

                        Jarrod
                        Jarrod... are you testing me?
                        Wayne Sagar
                        "Pusher of Electrons"

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: True potential of the Ghost?

                          I, for one, don't care what the Ghost could or could not do. All I know is that someone I love is gone, he and one of the most beautiful airplanes I have ever seen. I will never again see that smile or the sparkle in his eyes when he talks about racing. I'll never get to hug him again. In light of that, what does the rest of it matter?

                          Just sayin....
                          Last edited by sandramore; 09-29-2011, 10:19 PM. Reason: I think I've had enough for awhile....
                          sandra@pit-lizards-ultd.net
                          1.775.338.7082
                          http://www.pit-lizards-ultd.net

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: True potential of the Ghost?

                            Originally posted by sandramore View Post
                            I, for one, don't care what the Ghost could or could not do. All I know is that someone I love is gone, he and one of the most beautiful airplanes I have ever seen. I will never again see that smile or the sparkle in his eyes when he talks about racing. I'll never get to hug him again. In light of that, what does the rest of it matter?

                            Just sayin....
                            I'm on the same page! I am sure there will be a time in another thread where we all can deep dive in to the technicalities of this plane vs that one. Right now I think most of us would rather defer those conversations for " down the road".

                            Here is an answer to the initial question posted. True potential? Unlimited! So long as Jimmy and GG were around they could find ways to go faster. If they hadn't won this year at over 500, they could have been back next year to do it, or the next.... What we saw in Jimmy and GG was a commitment to do whatever it takes to win. That commitment, that drive, that passion cannot be denied. So long as that remained there is no speed beyond reasonable, no doubt of eventual victory.

                            Its part of the human condition, the nature of our heroes, that they don't accept the possible, they find a way to push those limits, break those records, to define the bar. I saw that in Jimmy and the GG team.

                            There are lot of things in life that looked great on paper, that when looked at in the cold light of science and engineering seemed like guarantied winners, but in the end failed to deliver.

                            And then we have the events that define us, those rare individuals that look at a challenge and trade conventional wisdom for passion and determination. Charles Lindberg chosing a single engine variation of a mail plane and soloing the Atlantic alone was considered a horrible idea by everyone fixated (and failing) on using larger multiengined aircraft with larger crews.

                            Never discount what a small group of people with drive and passion can accomplish.

                            Maybe in the form GG was on the ramp this year wasn't perfect, we will never know. I think we do know GG would have been back faster every year. We see that in every one of the fast teams, limits? Not for that rare breed we go out to see every September.

                            Spacegrrrl

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: True potential of the Ghost?

                              I was hoping discussion of the true potential of the ghost would continue.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: True potential of the Ghost?

                                I too would like to see it continue, although in a nice, non competitive way. I hope I worded that correctly, and I hope my, now deleted, "rant" did not scare anyone away from posting in this thread!! I had a point to make and felt I needed to make it extremely easy to understand.

                                I think I got my message across.
                                Wayne Sagar
                                "Pusher of Electrons"

                                Comment

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