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  • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

    Was I disappointed? Sure. Will I be back? absofreakinlootly! I had a blast all week.
    Bill Garnett
    InterstellarDust
    Air Race Fanatic since 1965

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    • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

      Hummm...will I let this years cancellation of two Gold races keep me from coming back?

      Just try and keep me away!! The same goes for many people that I know. We, like most of you, are already looking forward to next years version of the 'worlds fastest motorsport'.

      And wow, I just can't wait to hear 'THE BAD BOYS OF AIR RACING!!'

      Have a great day!!

      LP

      Comment


      • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

        Matt,

        Thank you for the info. It's a great story and I can only imagine hearing Skip say “this is combat fella’s”. What a character.

        Another thanks for your efforts with the Buick. We are all very sorry she busted. 4360's are my fav engine.

        Best of luck with the new ride.

        Cheers, Glen
        '71 S.D.1000, '85-'91,'94',95,'97-'99,'02,'04,'06,'08,'10,'13,'14 NCAR.

        Comment


        • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

          Thanks Matt, for the insight and for effectively ending this argument once and for all!
          I am waiting impatiently to see it all again next year!
          Leo Smiley - Graphics and Fine Arts
          airplanenutleo@gmail.com
          thetreasuredpeacock.etsy.com

          Comment


          • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

            Matt,
            I appriecate your time you took to explain to us race fans what the pilots were thinking and their correct decisions. I don't think many people could aurgue with the point that it should be up to you guys as to not race for the crowd and yourself and there should be some wind limit as to what the race should be allowed (25-30 knots it looks like).
            By biggest dissappointment with this whole air race/airshow deal as i stated above in an earlier post is this:
            The winds were less than 25 knots on sunday from about 7am through- 2:30pm. Sundays Gold Unlimited are why i travel 1480 Nautical miles to Reno for. Not for the snow birds, jet cars, or f18's flying by as one can get them at most airshows throughout the country (I still like all of that-but oshkosh is in my back yard). And this race is once per year.
            Most would admitt that this is the class that most fans here come for, and if they raced first- many would leave after-grand finale, etc..they could loose thousands of dollars in loss beer sales, etc... but you did state that these pilots are ego guys and not business guys!
            BIG QUESTION: Can this assocation adjust there schedule a couple of hours here or there to get this race in on this day? Which i think should have happened here? even if alot of people leave after it if raced earlier, so what- they still paid there admission tickets at least.
            Again- i know it is just a race and not real combat- but it might be something to bring up with the pilots and planners of this event, Thanks so much for taking the time to talk to the fans here and explain what you guys did.
            Schrambow

            Comment


            • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

              Originally posted by dvddude View Post
              Thanks for your first hand perspective, Matt, it's really appreciated! Hopefully that will quell some of the detractors on this thread.

              One question, though. Are there any established wind limits for the Unlimited course, or is it just up to the discretion of the pilots like the procedure you described above? You mentioned the 25 knot limit for being dragged by a parachute upon landing. Would the races go on with winds in excess of 25 knots or is that a judgment call made by the pilots?
              Well maybe I can give some insight. RARA ops, CEO, and Air boss were talking about max winds to hold a race. The key number was 35 knots not 25. That Sunday it was gusting to 38 knots. Yes there was a emergency meeting at the center field in a tent with all of the directors to call the shot. Talk was about having the gold the next day but the wavier and volunteers would be gone. Yes a wavier could be extended but a ton of volunteers needed to go home. It was a fair call and after what happened during the sport race I can't blame them. I have the radio traffic on MP3 if needed.

              Take in account the following and see if they could have raced later in the evening.

              1. after sunset is a logistical nightmare
              2. fire rescue has obligations to their dept after the races
              3. waver only in effect to 6PM Sunday.
              4. Volunteers and support has other obligations as well
              Last edited by radiokaos; 09-23-2010, 08:01 PM.

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              • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

                [QUOTE=radiokaos;83469]
                I have the radio traffic on MP3 if needed.




                Would love to hear it!

                Comment


                • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

                  Originally posted by radiokaos View Post
                  Well maybe I can give some insight. RARA ops, CEO, and Air boss were talking about max winds to hold a race. The key number was 35 knots not 25. That Sunday it was gusting to 38 knots. Yes there was a emergency meeting at the center field in a tent with all of the directors to call the shot. Talk was about having the gold the next day but the wavier and volunteers would be gone. Yes a wavier could be extended but a ton of volunteers needed to go home. It was a fair call and after what happened during the sport race I can't blame them. I have the radio traffic on MP3 if needed.
                  I would love to hear that! Please post it!


                  Originally posted by radiokaos View Post
                  Take in account the following and see if they could have raced later in the evening.


                  1. after sunset is a logistical nightmare

                  2. fire rescue has obligations to their dept after the races
                  3. waver only in effect to 6PM Sunday.
                  4. Volunteers and support has other obligations as well
                  I would think logistics would be the least of their problems if they raced after sunset. I'm going going to go out on a limb here and say they were probably more worried about being able to see the ground with no light! I don't think that would be very safe, especially with the mountains all around!

                  Comment


                  • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

                    Once the sun drops low, especially with clouds causing 'strobing' the pilots have problems.

                    If they wait til it drops below the horizon, guess what...they still see it from pace altitude and go down into darkness with their eyes trying to adjust.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

                      I will not grumble too much about the cancelled races, No race is ever worth purposely straight out chancing lives more than already necessary. We would still have preferred that they bumped up all the races earlier on Sunday. We would have stayed afterward if for no other reason than the comradery of all our good friends in the stands that we only see this one time per year. And also we can watch the snowbirds year after year no problem. Did delaying truly gain anyone / the concessionaires anything really? . . . I start shopping on Monday and am mostly done by Tuesday, well my spending cash is mostly done anyway . . .Even Rara figured this one out. (Hint to the racers who's people do not set up early!) I can then devote the primary race days to watching the show! I for one think it would have been better to let a few people wimp out early if races were run earlier, than have so many leaving unfulfilled and disheartened. And yes I would have gotten up at any hour to see the race run on Monday! But like so many others have stated . . . if blessed to be able to be back next year for our 28th year, then we will be there to see these unsettled gold race business finished hehe.
                      What part of 'Air Race FAN-atic' do you not understand?
                      Like the chips - You can't attend just one!

                      Comment


                      • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

                        These are not meant to be criticisms, only logistical questions. The announcer told us ref: the wind “It’s only going to get worse, folks.” In short, the increasing winds were a given. How hard would it have been to throw the schedule out the window and run the Unlimited Bronze, Silver, and Gold races in short order, say 10:00 am to 2 pm? Secondly, for the future, how hard would it be get the air space/insurance in advance through Noon on Monday and find out which volunteers could still show up on Monday morning for a few hours if need be? Keep the public out and you still need timers, pylon judges, etc but perhaps there might be enough people to finish any class that couldn’t fly on Sunday. Also, I have nothing against air show acts, but given the forecasts, it might have been prudent to let them slide and get the racing in first…..We have all seen high winds and squalls in the past. Perhaps it is time to consider contingencies before the start of race week. If money is the issue for change, raise the ticket prices, which I feel are ridiculously low, a buck or two a day and bank the money for a windy day. If this is just too complex, then no matter, I will always attend. I just get sad over 2001, 2007, and now 2010, the race of the decade that never was. Meanwhile, all you pilots stay well and come back next year for the best race of the century.

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                        • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

                          Originally posted by dvddude View Post
                          I would think logistics would be the least of their problems if they raced after sunset. I'm going going to go out on a limb here and say they were probably more worried about being able to see the ground with no light! I don't think that would be very safe, especially with the mountains all around!
                          Agreed....Night is the major issue along with the high winds. Almost all of the BOD's came to a VIP tent to meet and discuss the issue. The FSDO reminded RARA of the wavier and the Air Boss contacted RNO about the winds (gusts past 35 knots). Could not do it after dark and could not support a run the next day. It was a good call and I don't see the issues or drama behind this.
                          Last edited by radiokaos; 09-23-2010, 11:29 PM.

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                          • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

                            Originally posted by Coyote Chris View Post
                            These are not meant to be criticisms, only logistical questions. The announcer told us ref: the wind “It’s only going to get worse, folks.” In short, the increasing winds were a given. How hard would it have been to throw the schedule out the window and run the Unlimited Bronze, Silver, and Gold races in short order, say 10:00 am to 2 pm? Secondly, for the future, how hard would it be get the air space/insurance in advance through Noon on Monday and find out which volunteers could still show up on Monday morning for a few hours if need be? Keep the public out and you still need timers, pylon judges, etc but perhaps there might be enough people to finish any class that couldn’t fly on Sunday. Also, I have nothing against air show acts, but given the forecasts, it might have been prudent to let them slide and get the racing in first…..We have all seen high winds and squalls in the past. Perhaps it is time to consider contingencies before the start of race week. If money is the issue for change, raise the ticket prices, which I feel are ridiculously low, a buck or two a day and bank the money for a windy day. If this is just too complex, then no matter, I will always attend. I just get sad over 2001, 2007, and now 2010, the race of the decade that never was. Meanwhile, all you pilots stay well and come back next year for the best race of the century.
                            On Sunday they were pretty much on a 10 minute slide (delay) all day, And when the T-6 gold cancled that put them ahead. They gave the Snow Birds the extra time to run the course, and a fly by.

                            The jet gold did their run up early, and sat at the warm up area for quite a long time. This in its self had race control up in arms. Then they were cleared for take off (early), and this made race control even more mad. I remember hearing race control over the radio saying "this is not good" a couple of times.

                            If you look at the schedule of events per day, they have every thing set down to the minute. They try hard to keep to the time listed for each event/act, and it's is done for a reason. They have briefings with the race pilots, acts, safety teams, pylon judges, (EVERYONE), first thing in the morning. So EVERYONE knows what to expect/when to fly during the day, and most importantly for safety reasons.

                            Could they have bumped all the races up and fly the acts in the afternoon? With the exception of the military acts (this is just a guess, but they do keep a very strict schedule). Probibly, it would have created an hr delay minimum of the days activities (dead time) just getting everyone back together and briefed, and it still would have created safety issues.

                            And to be honest, they were having wind gusts reaching 25 to 28 knots before 12:00. I really don't think bumping everything up would have made a difference.

                            Wolfee

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                            • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

                              Spot on Wolfee!

                              There has been no mention of problems with the Formula's, but I heard that two were damaged on takeoff (for the Gold I believe) Takeoff was on Rwy 32 with a quartering tailwind. One aborted the takeoff after getting upended that resuted in a prop strike. The other had a similar incident and continued the takeoff only to land shortly after.

                              The Gold results show a DNF for #1 and a DNS for #40.

                              Anyone know anything about this? I did not see it happen but a close and trusted friend told me about it.
                              Last edited by Skyracer; 09-24-2010, 07:14 AM.

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                              • Re: Gold Cancelled to winds

                                We could not see the runway due to the ground out there (sitting on the ramp) but I do remember seeing one of them taking off and landing immediately and the "announcer" talking about him and another nosing over, "that's what happens in these winds folks".
                                As far as rescheduling the races is concerned. If I am scheduled to race, perform at 3:00 I would be doing my preparation based on being ready at that time (a lot of these guys don't button it up until it gets towed out). Suddenly an official runs up and tells me I have to fly in an hour. I may have to rush my prep and mistakes get made. Winging it on the day in question could be just as dangerous as going ahead in bad conditions.
                                I have never seen them launch the little guys that way and was surprised at the time that they even raced. The landings were, to say the least, interesting.
                                Leo Smiley - Graphics and Fine Arts
                                airplanenutleo@gmail.com
                                thetreasuredpeacock.etsy.com

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