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Could it be, 2 races every year!!!

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  • Could it be, 2 races every year!!!

    If we had 3 races,

    Reno Las Vegas Phoenix (Kansas City...)


    just imagine! a championship series!

    points, sponsors, fans...


    go ahead wake me up,
    just dreaming

  • #2
    Well, you're not dreaming.. but some people are and their vision is very attractive, or could be. It'll be partially up to the fans of the sport to help grow knowledge of it in order to fill the seats, should their be seats to fill.

    Las Vegas Nellis Air Show is a "demonstration" race, but I guarantee that all present will get just as hooked on Air Racing as those who see an actual race do.

    From our "ear to the railroad track" what we're hearing sounds pretty damn good though.. Let's all cross our fingers, send a few emails to important people to let them know we like what we're seeing and a few more to our friends and relatives to let them know about what's happening and see if we can all help this happen successfully!

    Wayne
    Wayne Sagar
    "Pusher of Electrons"

    Comment


    • #3
      Start Small???

      I brought a person up this year to work ramp security who is an executive for a major oil company. He seemed very interested in trying to make things work so this could be a regular scheduled series of races. He saw a lot of potential in the races as they are now, but there is a lot that needs to be done to make this a more profitable endeavor for those who would participate in it. He has worked in the sponsorship arena before so he knows the ins and outs of it.

      Warbirds are problematic at best when thinking about multiple races. A prop for a Mustang (Last I heard...I may be wrong now...) is about $40 grand. Motors are getting more scarce by the day, and their cost is a lot more than anyone can win in a single race. Think about what Tiger, Lyle, and the others spend whenever a motor frags. There is no way they can ever make enough prize money to pay for such things. It has to come from sponsorship. The problem there has always been the lack of enthusiasm based on a single annual event.

      So what to do?

      I suggested an IROC style race where the planes are all built exactly the same and the racers choose lots to fly one...not knowing which one they will get until it is race time.

      Of course there are those who only come to see unlimiteds... those people will most likely be turned off by that. But it is a start. Get something like that going, have unlimiteds / T-6's / and jets join in twice (or more) per year to start, and maybe you will see something come of a racing circuit for airplanes. Sponsorship should follow if it is a regular event, then once the money and interest is there, maybe more warbird related events could evolve.

      I think you have to start small and work up. The problem has always seemed to be that the unlimiteds were always considered as the big draw first and foremost and that is why it never took off. The prize money needed to bring the big dogs in has never been there. I have heard that is why Phoenix failed. They apparently never paid off the prize money for the first year and wondered why no one showed up again the next year.

      What do you all think?

      Comment


      • #4
        You are of course

        correct, I would like to see a F1 and sportsman series,
        because it could be (like hydro F1 )more affordable - I forsee
        the unlimiteds becoming larger more powerful homebuilts
        again - made more affordable by COTS availability, the
        warbirds can become the treasures of history they are.

        ...still dreaming...

        Comment


        • #5
          A Suggestion: "Restrictor Plate" Racing

          Of course, this is going to be "controversial" in that I know some NASCAR fans absolutely are livid about the use of the plates in that sport.... Also, of course, in the world of Unlimited airplanes, running boost, it would be in the form of a "popoff valve"... but..

          "What if?" .. a reasonably well built 3350 can run well more than one season without major overhaul, similarly with the 4360.. still not cheap but cheaper than a full blown Merlin..

          And, the 3350 is basically not competitive with the Merlin when the Merlin is brought to the "edge of destruction" with the high boost settings that are needed to go well past 450..

          Remembering the excitement of the Silver races in 98 or 99 when there were several Sea Fury racers running VERY close lap after lap, race after race.. my what if question is..

          What if, the Merlins were limited in boost to say something over take off power, calculated carefully to bring them somewhere close in speed to the 3350 powered SF's.. ??

          What the end result of this *could* be is engine longevity and, some really close racing. Other things could be added to the mix, like making the races 12 or 15 laps where some measure of fuel stragedy would come into play.

          I remember Kerch telling me several years ago in an interview we did with him, that he was looking to seeing the Unlimited's either going away, or slowing down, his thought was we were going to start scattering airplanes if we kept going faster.. of course, he's right... but..

          Could something like this work? What if there were several races a year and all but the final had the restriction? Could this make it affordable for a team to run a "season" ?

          Your thoughts?? Darts...arrows and flaming spears welcome..

          It's time we had some healthy "debate" here that was not of the sort of subject that could ruffle feathers..

          Wayne Sagar
          Wayne Sagar
          "Pusher of Electrons"

          Comment


          • #6
            Racers always find a way

            NHRA has tried something similar in the fuel classes. Do to the many oil downs that was making the sport unattractive to live TV coverage, NHRA came up with the 90% nitro rule. Now in Top Fuel and Funny Car you can only run 90% nitro. The result? In the beginning the cars were a little slower. But the crews soon figured out that to make up for the loss of nitro they needed to spin the blower faster. Now the record is over 330MPH and et is in the 4.40's. They are spinning the blowers at unbelievable speeds. Now when you watch an event a routine number of cars toss blower belts during their runs.

            I'm all for less breakage than we had this year, but they will find another way to make the horsepower and the next weak component will be found as they channel the horsepower elsewhere.

            Also, we all I'm sure would like to see that 500mph lap before they attempt to maybe slow them down.

            Comment


            • #7
              Not too sure the $$ would be there to circumvent the power restrictions in Air Racing.. what I think we'd see more of is airframe mods to make the same power go faster.. Airplanes benefit much more from aerodynamic "detailing" than do race cars.. though both do benefit, the airspeeds we're seeing and the length of the race multiplys the benefit greatly over the course of a race..

              On the 500mph lap.. seeing it would, I guess, be cool but I'm not so sure at what cost? A scattered engine, a lost airplane.. We damn near saw it this year and to my eye, I could not tell the difference between that lap and one at 470..

              Nice bragging rights, to be sure, but what does it do for the overal competition? I like to see some close racing with jockying for position on each lap... something we rarely see in this sport and something drastically needed to get television producers interested.. View the races through a lens sometime.. rarely do you get the chance in anything other than a very wide shot to get more than one or two airplanes in frame.. Same goes for a video cam man.. Translate that to the small screen and you begin to see why no TV show ever really covers the races.. Even the World of Wings show concentrated more on the teams and players than the actual racing.. why? Harder than hell to capture it for the little box..

              Wayne Sagar
              Wayne Sagar
              "Pusher of Electrons"

              Comment


              • #8
                "Could something like this work?"

                I still can't see it working for warbirds no matter what. They will become too valuable very soon, parts too scarce. All the others, YES. A sky full of Unlimited Darts, sure. Turboprops? Turbine powered Glassairs and Lancairs could be very interesting. You would see 400's immediately I suspect. Parts are not a problem. In 5 years who knows how fast? We may find out.

                Alas, the warbirds will never be on a regular circuit. Won't happen.

                Comment


                • #9
                  warbirds

                  Your second race will never be more than a demo race with the current crop of unlimiteds. Even with big time sponsors the cost and parts availability can't be sustained. Until you have reliable racers, that can consistently be competetive, don't look for large sponsors. They wan't somthing that is going to be seen, be out there attending several events a year, with a pilot out sighning autographs at the local autoparts store, something they can market.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As for an IROC style race, we pretty much have one in the T-6 class where the parity is the highest, and the racing is the closest. The jets have that potential as well, if they stick to one make and no mods....

                    All in all, I'm leaning towards believing that the sport class may be king in the future. Despite my passion for warbirds, I see at least 3 factors which will limit any long term growth in that class:
                    -the huge economic commitment to play the game
                    -The finite availability of parts
                    -the attractive (high dollar) market to convert them back to stock warbirds
                    However, that does not mean they can't play a role - even in stock configuration.

                    Depending how the rules are written and applied, Sport appears to offer relative affordability, reliability, repeatability, and availability. Picture a gaggle of brightly colored glass slippers emblazened with sponsors' names ( Tide, DuPont, Cheerios, etc)- throw in action, promotion, more color, media, personalities, and a good ol' Chevy vs Ford fight, and you got yourself some racin' !!
                    the other Wayne................

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I am glad we are going here with it.

                      I agree with Wayne S. the "Plate" may be the way to see who is the best pilot, bird, and crew. When you take the concept of the "biggest money buys the biggest 'Stuff' wins the race"....I believe you will have your sponsored racing....as far as warbirds....well the crowed will always be drawn to a prop driven aircraft that flies and was every "kids" dream to see.....

                      Only my 2 cents, but you gotta pay the guys when they bring in the heavy metal too....you can't expect the Tigers, Rhinos, and others to pay for it all....no matter how good your business is that pays your livelyhood, it can't be that great of a tax write off to make it work for them.
                      Randy Rheinschild
                      www.Unlimitedair.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A Suggestion: "Restrictor Plate" Racing

                        Originally posted by AAFO_WSagar
                        Of course, this is going to be "controversial" in that I know some NASCAR fans absolutely are livid about the use of the plates in that sport.... Also, of course, in the world of Unlimited airplanes, running boost, it would be in the form of a "popoff valve"... but..

                        "What if?" .. a reasonably well built 3350 can run well more than one season without major overhaul, similarly with the 4360.. still not cheap but cheaper than a full blown Merlin.....

                        The problem is the warbirds themselves and how much they cost and the availability of planes and parts. Whether they be Jets, T-6's, or Unlimiteds (P-51's - Fury's -etc).

                        If you want a regular racing season (A circuit), they most likely need to be standard built airplanes, or something to that effect. The other classes could join in certain times per year, but the base needs to be replacable, lower cost airplanes with large spares availability.

                        I do not think restricting motors will work. Someone will always think they are at a disadvantage.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Missing the point...

                          Originally posted by rwflyboy
                          I agree with Wayne S. the "Plate" may be the way to see who is the best pilot, bird, and crew....

                          Unlimited will never facilitate a racing circuit. Like others here have said: It can't happen. Restricting motors is not the answer to creating a circuit. It may be an answer to keeping motors from fragging...but that will only help so much. Motors are man made and will blow up. That is the nature of the beast. If you start limiting unlimiteds...then they will no longer be unlimiteds. You will only be able to fly stock airplanes against like stock airplanes and any mods will be seen as an unfair advantage.



                          Originally posted by rwflyboy
                          Only my 2 cents, but you gotta pay the guys when they bring in the heavy metal too....you can't expect the Tigers, Rhinos, and others to pay for it all....


                          I am saying that those guys can come to Reno and maybe one or two other events per year...as a novelty...but a circuit...a regular monthly or bi-monthly event...would need to be something other than warbirds. It is the only way it can work. If you have the circuit racing, then the money would be there for the warbird guys to come in, because everyone would anticipate those races where the warbirds would be there and the draw would be a lot higher at those times. Hence, more money available with the sponsorships and competition between companies to sponsor those very "Special" events.

                          Glenn

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If you have the circuit racing, then the money would be there for the warbird guys to come in, because everyone would anticipate those races where the warbirds would be there and the draw would be a lot higher at those times. Hence, more money available with the sponsorships and competition between companies to sponsor those very "Special" events.
                            You make a very good point.....now if we get Vegas on board (Scaring RARA) and get some of the classes competing year round, your idea would work great. I hope that we go a direction that no matter what we all start racing, as long as it is air racing (formulas and t-6's etc.) and that we can build from there...don't you think?
                            Randy Rheinschild
                            www.Unlimitedair.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I in no way wish to insult or anger anyone, but I REALLY like the fact that there is only one race per year.

                              Comment

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