MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

[taglialavore]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

I know this is taking other way from the original thread but it is related with what it is explain in.I think the idea of using a Learjet wing, like Miss Ashley II, was a good one for a racer. Of course, I donīt have any information about its performing, about speed. I would like to have any feedback about this and comparing with the T2 wing. Thanks.

[Matt Jackson]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Lear Jet wing was designed for high altitude high speed. It was not a good choice for a turning course. The sweep also degraded performance in the turn actually creating higher drag. Skip said Miss Ashly was a rocket ship at high altitude cruise. Exactly what it was designed for on a Lear. It was beautiful to look at, but did not performed as originally thought it would.

MJ

[Matt Jackson]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

The T2 wing has no sweep and has great air foil numbers. Dave Cornell can explain this better then I. His research coupled with a great deal of aero work performed by a well know aero company came up with the T2 wing as the ideal wing for a unlimited propeller race aircraft on a turning course of aproxamately 3 g's. Its ideal for Reno.

[Race5]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

That T2 wing looked like it did pretty well while still bolted to the rest of the T2 this year. Matt, did you confer any with Dr Sugden about the flying qualities of that jet around the course? Obviously it's not totallly apples to apples, but it did go 500+.

[BuckyD]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

The T2 wing has no sweep and has great air foil numbers. Dave Cornell can explain this better then I. His research coupled with a great deal of aero work performed by a well know aero company came up with the T2 wing as the ideal wing for a unlimited propeller race aircraft on a turning course of aproxamately 3 g's. Its ideal for Reno.

- Hi Matt! Really appreciate your taking the time to share all the great insider input regarding AWESOME, TSUNAMI and your collaborative custom Unlimited project with Dave Cornell - AMERICAN SPIRIT, and previous offerings.

Know this is delving totally into the 'hypothetical realm' of air racing, but what are your thoughts regarding how well SPIRIT would do IF someday pitted against a completed Greenamyer SHOCKWAVE head-to-head out on the Reno Unlimited course?

I realize - that's a somewhat 'loaded' question too & obviously - the pilot match for SHOCKWAVE would be a major factor, assuming, of course, you'll be flying SPIRIT. (Think Darryl would still want to handle SHOCKWAVE if she could see completion & test in the same 18-month period as your bird's final construction phase?)

And lastly, where do you imagine RARE BEAR would factor in this equation??? It sure would be one hellova contest to watch, I would think!!!

Always appreciate your candid commentary. BuckyD

[hm66sk]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Thanks again Mr. Jackson for the great info. Would you care to share some pictures of "American Spirit" with us? PLEASE

[Matt Jackson]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

As I mentioned before. My feeling is if any of these new unlimiteds get done the result will make the current airplanes a bit obsolete. To speculate who would be faster is a bit premature. Hopefully we will eventually see first hand. Who would have thought we would still be chasing Rarebear around after all these years? Dago showed how much faster a fast Mustang is with its pretty impressive over 500 marks yet to be obtained by anyone else on the Reno course. If you were to add another 20MPH to those numbers planes like Rarebear and Dago for that matter will be delegated to the middle of the pack. My belief is that the current unlimiteds are as about as fast as they can go at this point. Throw in the continuing engine lack of reliability issue and you might see the eventual need for another class of racing utilizing a more modern and available power source. Prices have thrown this racing venue into a real dilemma. We are currently racing for peanuts if you consider what it costs to replace a damaged engine. If you win everything you still don't pay all the bills.

[taglialavore]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Lear Jet wing was designed for high altitude high speed. It was not a good choice for a turning course. The sweep also degraded performance in the turn actually creating higher drag. Skip said Miss Ashly was a rocket ship at high altitude cruise. Exactly what it was designed for on a Lear. It was beautiful to look at, but did not performed as originally thought it would.

MJ

yes, I imagine that tight turnings as in the racecourse are a problem even using wing fences, cannot stop the sweep.
Thank you again Mr. Jackson.

[John]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Does the wing on an aircraft such as Rare Bear see critical mach before the Fuselage?

..or is it at the wing root junction first?

Bear airfoil is about 18% thick at the root if I remember right...

[John]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

...also, back in '91 didn't Tiger and Skip suggest the propeller was the limiting factor in top speed?(as I remember reading about the "soft wall" that Strega and Tsunami experienced -Skip actually reducing power and getting back some speed during that race).

Thanks for the aero info Matt, my favorite subject!

[David E. Wells]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

I remember someone saying the same thing about the Bear, but I can't recall if it referred to the 3 or 4 blade era...D.

[taglialavore]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Does the wing on an aircraft such as Rare Bear see critical mach before the Fuselage?

..or is it at the wing root junction first?

Bear airfoil is about 18% thick at the root if I remember right...

Normally the Mcrit appears on the upper surface of the wing, in the point where the airflow has reached the speed of sound. That place may be sooner in the thicker airfoils. Nevertheless, close to the fuselage you encounter the interference between two boundary layers, the fuselage one and the other from the wing, so you got a thicker boundary layer and it could be that the flow tube decreases its area so the the air flow velocity grows up reaching the speed of sound earlier, close to the fuselage. Thats why wing-fuselage fairings are used. Of course, these are assumptions, it depends of other factors. Also, may be a shock wave appears before in the fuselage, but it has another interest. Mcrit is mainly related to the wing behavior .

[John]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Normally the Mcrit appears on the upper surface of the wing, in the point where the airflow has reached the speed of sound. That place may be sooner in the thicker airfoils. Nevertheless, close to the fuselage you encounter the interference between two boundary layers, the fuselage one and the other from the wing, so you got a thicker boundary layer and it could be that the flow tube decreases its area so the the air flow velocity grows up reaching the speed of sound earlier, close to the fuselage. Thats why wing-fuselage fairings are used. Of course, these are assumptions, it depends of other factors. Also, may be a shock wave appears before in the fuselage, but it has another interest. Mcrit is mainly related to the wing behavior .

Nice answer, thanks!

[ebutner]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

We are in hopes to have American Spirit up and running in a 18 months. Primary sponsor was at Sanders two days ago for a view of the project.

MJ

Can you expand on or give us updates on this project. Please. "Race fans want to know." Thanks