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  • #91
    Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

    Originally posted by BellCobraIV View Post
    Lyle's Record was "retired" not broken, for some unknown reason the FAI decided to "retire" Lyle's record. The FAI claim it was due to a change in the sporting code. The explanation was that the record was considered too risky to life and limb to not change the parameters under which Lyle's record was set. So by retiring his record the FAI "said" Lyle would indeed hold that record forever.

    Personally I don't think anyone but a meely mouthed chicken crap coward would set a new 3 KM record at a speed slower than what would have exceeded my Dad's record and not expect to be made fun of. However if that would occur I firmly believe that person would fully understand the concept of being haunted by their actions.

    Personally I don't think anyone but a meely mouthed chicken crap coward would set a new 3 KM record at a speed slower than what would have exceeded my Dad's record and not expect to be made fun of. However if that would occur I firmly believe that person would fully understand the concept of being haunted by their actions.

    Just my opinion.


    You are certainly allowed to have an opinion and of course nothing will take away from Lyle's achievements...But if an FAI classification is sitting there with no established record on the books (regardless as to why it was a vacant record) why would that make someone a "meely mouthed chicken crap coward" for putting a record in the books ? (it's mealymouthed by the way)

    Anyone who puts the hard work, time, effort, and money into setting records deserves respect and credit...Be it at 100mph or 500mph or any record for that matter it still requires a ton of work from a lot of people and at times can be a dangerous task... a coward?...I would consider name calling much more the cowardly act .

    You are of course free to agree or disagree with why the FAI records were basically reset and open, but how can you be upset with people who love aviation and decide to put a number in place?...We worked VERY hard and put in many long days prepping and setting to the best of our aircrafts abilities 9 varied aviation records in 2012 and when someone spews empty rhetoric belittling anyones attempts at such endeavors I felt the need to respond.

    I again mean absolutely NO disrespect to Lyle, but felt the disrespect in your words was unwarranted.
    Last edited by johnnyrace; 05-31-2014, 08:17 PM.

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    • #92
      Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

      Originally posted by johnnyrace View Post

      Anyone who puts the hard work, time, effort, and money into setting records deserves respect and credit...Be it at 100mph or 500mph or any record for that matter it still requires a ton of work from a lot of people and at times can be a dangerous task... a coward?...I would consider name calling much more the cowardly act .
      OK, So yesterday afternoon I get a message from Wayne Sagar saying that Will Whiteside and his team have taken offense to my statements, I was told that the team felt my comments in this post were directed at them.

      I emphatically deny that my comments were in any way directed at Team Steadfast. In fact I appreciate the effort of Will and his team to go out of their way and do something positive. I have never had anyone say to me that Will in any form had claimed to beat Lyle's record. I understand that Will Whiteside has set the record in a different weight class than the record we set and that 416 miles per hour is quite a bit faster than the record set by the previous holder Howard Hughes.

      My comments were in fact directed at some unknown future record "breaker" that would possibly put a number up of 529 MPH which yes would be faster than Lyle's 528.329 MPH record, but less than what would have been required if Lyle's record wasn't "RETIRED".

      Quite simply everyone that was a part of getting the Rare Bear to where she was prior to setting the 3Km record in 1989 deserved that record. All of us understand the hard work, time, and money that went into setting a record, quite a few of us are stunned that a desk jockey can take his word processor out and change our perceived accomplishment. Put yourself in our position and imagine twenty years from now someone resets Will's hard fought effort at a lower speed ( once again I am not saying Will has ever claimed to have broken Lyle's record.) Say they go 412 MPH, but due to someone with a word processor in Paris they get told congratulations you set a record. Are you happy? Do you understand? So no it hasn't happened yet, but also this August when a group of us share a silent toast to all of the team members that were there 25 years ago. Will it ring hollow? We set the record, nobody has gone out and gone faster on a 3Km course. I wish they had it would be easier to swallow.

      That is going to be my only response to this point. I am sincerely sorry if I offended anyone, or if anyone thought I intended to offend Team Steadfast, their crew, or their sponsors.
      John Slack

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      • #93
        Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

        John, thank you very much for the clarification.
        Lyle WAS the reason I became enamored with Unlimited Air Racing in the first place. Standing on the ramp, watching. NO, "feeling" that 3 bladed prop screw its way around the course for a Sunday Main Event and just like I knew I needed to eat dinner, I knew that was what I needed to do. (He flew so expertly) Lyle paved the way for many years of the worlds fastest races and we, read "I" capitalized on his hard work. He was one of the best the sport has ever had.
        I think that the experiences to date give us insight on what it takes to set or better the 528 number. 416 wasn't a gimme, I had plans to use that as a jumping off point for a bigger attempt and that was merely practice. We had hoped our attempt would spur a group of racers to come out and attempt bettering "our" record as we had just had the Leeward crash and the future of Unlimited Pylon Racing was an unknown. Well, my friend Elliot Seguine has done just that and look at the turn out he has had. It's the future of air racing for Unlimited types.
        I was told by the Head of the NAA at the time that they had retired the 1989 unlimited record during a change in the rules to promote record setting worldwide. In essence, Lyle and his peers had set the bar so high that the NAA and FAI had to break out the aircraft due to weight so as to allow others a chance to get in the game. It also brings a ton of money to the NAA. Don't think this isn't a factor.
        We set the 3K and the other records in 2 weight categories because SteadFast can be weighted at takeoff appropriately. Lets just say that knowing you hold the 3K in an Unlimited is pretty cool no matter the speed but don't be fooled, we all knew that 118 MPH clockwise on the airspeed indicator is where we wanted to be.
        I hope someone will go out and give our records a try. If you attempt it or achieve it, make sure the world knows it's going to happen and that it did happen. With all of the secrets that aren't really secrets in this business we would do a hell of a lot better as a group if we would collaborate. It's good P.R. for the world of aviation, It's why I got into racing and it's what made America once great.
        Don't look at flogging the same old horse, be innovative, be inventive and take new ground. That's what got us here even if the growth and envelope expansion stopped in the mid 1900's. We are capable. If we don't get off our butts the only aircraft that show up for our kids first airshow will be a five ship fly-by of drones.
        Thanks again John. I appreciate your candor. All my best to fans and racers.
        As Lyle wrote to most of us:
        "Fly Fastest"
        Will Whiteside

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        • #94
          Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

          Thanks everyone! It makes me very happy to see that we can get around the lack of clarity that internet posts can bring and get to the gist of it all... in the end, we all just love fast airplanes and the pilots who drive them to their limits!... and beyond!

          Will, one of my earliest memories of RENO is watching Lyle stride out to the airplane, fans in tow, stopping to shake a hand, sign a program, smile BROADLY displayed across his face. He truly was a one of a kind!

          Wayne Sagar
          "Pusher of Electrons"

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          • #95
            Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

            Originally posted by knot4u View Post
            I've lost faith in the Bearcat recently. Regardless a mustang can't carry the fluids required for a 3K that would top Lyles record.
            What kind of fluids would that be? It isn't gas because the Stang holds more than the Cat...

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            • #96
              Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

              ...and what is the purpose of "retiring" a speed record...if I was part of team Rare Bear I'd be protesting the hell out of this decision...

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              • #97
                Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

                Originally posted by grampi View Post
                ...and what is the purpose of "retiring" a speed record...if I was part of team Rare Bear I'd be protesting the hell out of this decision...
                As Lyle's son explained in his post above:

                Lyle's Record was "retired" not broken, for some unknown reason the FAI decided to "retire" Lyle's record. The FAI claim it was due to a change in the sporting code. The explanation was that the record was considered too risky to life and limb to not change the parameters under which Lyle's record was set. So by retiring his record the FAI "said" Lyle would indeed hold that record forever.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

                  Originally posted by grampi View Post
                  What kind of fluids would that be? It isn't gas because the Stang holds more than the Cat...
                  Perhaps someone told me an old wives tale. Big HP requires big cooling, 3K hasn't been broken yet. But you probably know more about it than I do.

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                  • #99
                    Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

                    Originally posted by knot4u View Post
                    Perhaps someone told me an old wives tale. Big HP requires big cooling, 3K hasn't been broken yet. But you probably know more about it than I do.
                    Bill Hickle told you the old wives tail, and yes there is something Grampi is either " not knowing" or hasn't figured out. But in the words of Bill Hickle "it's not our job to tell the other guys how to fix their issues." End quote, but even if we no longer play that game.

                    P.S. Don't lose faith in the Bear, it is not her fault.
                    John Slack

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                    • Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

                      Originally posted by BellCobraIV View Post
                      Bill Hickle told you the old wives tail, and yes there is something Grampi is either " not knowing" or hasn't figured out. But in the words of Bill Hickle "it's not our job to tell the other guys how to fix their issues." End quote, but even if we no longer play that game.

                      P.S. Don't lose faith in the Bear, it is not her fault.
                      Yeah but in the words of a ghost from the gulch...."but what have you done LATELY?"

                      Comment


                      • Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

                        Originally posted by BellCobraIV View Post
                        Bill Hickle told you the old wives tail, and yes there is something Grampi is either " not knowing" or hasn't figured out. But in the words of Bill Hickle "it's not our job to tell the other guys how to fix their issues." End quote, but even if we no longer play that game.

                        P.S. Don't lose faith in the Bear, it is not her fault.
                        I don't think it was Bill, I actually thought it was you or Greg. Regardless, that was a long time ago and many things have advanced since then. As far as the airplane, I sometimes miss it and it makes me sad when it doesn't run well, I don't hate the players, I just don't like the game.
                        Last edited by knot4u; 06-08-2014, 10:10 PM.

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                        • Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

                          Originally posted by knot4u View Post
                          Perhaps someone told me an old wives tale. Big HP requires big cooling, 3K hasn't been broken yet. But you probably know more about it than I do.
                          If the Stangs can run well over 500 MPH (in bursts) around Reno for 9 laps, then simple logic suggests they are also capable of making a run at the 3K record as well...

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                          • Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

                            Originally posted by grampi View Post
                            If the Stangs can run well over 500 MPH (in bursts) around Reno for 9 laps, then simple logic suggests they are also capable of making a run at the 3K record as well...
                            You're right. I've changed my mind based on your opinion, Thanks.

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                            • Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

                              Originally posted by knot4u View Post
                              You're right. I've changed my mind based on your opinion, Thanks.
                              Being a polite smart ass is still being a smart ass...

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                              • Re: Fastest speed for a prop driven airplane?

                                Originally posted by grampi View Post
                                Being a polite smart ass is still being a smart ass...
                                My Mom used to tell me the same thing, thanks for recognizing I'm smart and polite.

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