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BB vs. Czech Mate...

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  • #16
    Re: BB vs. Czech Mate...

    Originally posted by Blue Foam
    Here's the link, quite the interesting engineer...



    Yes, 3350's could be better; they are also heavier, bigger, and would require a lot of money and work. The idea of the 2800's mentioned in this article is that BB and CM already run them. So cost would be limited to finding out what Walker did and applying it along with whatever we could throw at it from today's perspective.

    The Bear's 3350 is currently max'd somewhere just above 4000 HP, however the aircraft has flown many of its fastest laps on less. There is not a huge difference in the displacement: the 3350 is 20% larger than the 2800. Yes, there is no replacement for displacement, but remember that the Merlin is only 1650, half of a 3350 and 60% of a 2800. Merlins make quite the power density (best of any Unlimited), so apply that same density to the roundies and we would have 5800 and 6950 HP. Of course, neither engine would exist for more than a few revolutions at that power level since they were never made for it (neither was the Merlin, but for its size it's a better engine).

    For reference, the 1945 production wartime-emergency-power on the 2800 was 3000 HP. This would give both BB and CM better power to weight than the Bear currently has. As the article states, Pratt typically tested its engines for long periods of time (longer than a race week) at WEP. As my friend pointed out, this was done on new production parts and with all the engineering of war-era Pratt and Whitney behind it. It's just something to think about.
    Holy cow Batman!!! 3800 HP and 150 inches of mercury!!!! If I hadn't read it I'd hardly believe it.

    Now I've got even more respect for my favorite engine.

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    • #17
      Re: BB vs. Czech Mate...

      Originally posted by Juke
      Dudes,

      No no intent to hijack a thread. Just to remind about the different sizes of RR Merlins. Here is a link:



      One thing I just realized was that Me 109 K-4 flew 441 mph tops with a Griffon sized engine. Merlins on Mustangs were only 27 litre displacements and still flew 440 mph ( and Griffon was 36+ litres and DB 605L right about 36 litres ).

      DB 605L data; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler-Benz_DB_605

      rgds

      Juke
      Juke, Different size Merlins?? Are you refering to displacement??

      Hawkeye

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      • #18
        Re: BB vs. Czech Mate...

        Originally posted by Peashooter
        Imagining 3350s on Bossman is like fantacizing about Mia Ham with double Ds. "Start me up!"
        Truly, this would be analogous to the comparison of the Mosquito's nacelles to the mamaries of Nell Guinn (a rather popular myth back then and QUITE politically incorrect today!).

        All kidding aside, it's another area where I believe some valuable research has lain dormant and could be of great use in the cost x risk / benefit equation for a couple of current air racers.
        Eric Ahlstrom

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        • #19
          Re: BB vs. Czech Mate...

          I am under the impression that the R-2800 used on Conquest I was a hybrid of several different models of the 2800, much like the Bearcat's engine.
          Eric, you mentioned somewhere else a low drag, low risk and inexpensive speed increaser in redirecting exhaust flow. Have you ever seen photos of Conquest I with it's exhaust flow redirected down the fuse side as close to the slipstream direction as possible? Done mainly for the record attempt it allowed the exhaust to nearly melt the side of the airplane. It does work though, the paint is scorched all the way to the tail stinger!
          Chris...

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          • #20
            Re: BB vs. Czech Mate...

            Originally posted by Chris McMillin
            Eric, you mentioned somewhere else a low drag, low risk and inexpensive speed increaser in redirecting exhaust flow. Have you ever seen photos of Conquest I with it's exhaust flow redirected down the fuse side as close to the slipstream direction as possible? Done mainly for the record attempt it allowed the exhaust to nearly melt the side of the airplane. It does work though, the paint is scorched all the way to the tail stinger!
            Chris...
            Yes, the challenge is not melting the aircraft. On the Mustang, the exhausts are completely mis-aligned with the aircraft streamlines. Aligning them would be great, but the flow would melt the sides of the canopy!

            There are fixes for these problems, but I don't give that kind of speed away for free.
            Eric Ahlstrom

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            • #21
              Re: BB vs. Czech Mate...

              [QUOTE=Blue Foam]Yes, the challenge is not melting the aircraft. On the Mustang, the exhausts are completely mis-aligned with the aircraft streamlines. Aligning them would be great, but the flow would melt the sides of the canopy!

              Now there's an interesting thought, wouldn't that be hairy.............?

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              • #22
                Re: BB vs. Czech Mate...

                I beleive Conquest 1 ran a CB power section with a dash 44 nose case.The blower section was a B style to fit the bearcat as a CB has clearance problems.A 44 nose case is off an AJ savage and is .35 to 1. CB series are late model transport engines.Also when looking notice the lack of external scoops.This was a boil off and the carb intake is inside the cowling much like a P2V.I also believe the pistons were welded up on the combustion chambers .25 inch to raise the static compession ratio.Looking at the speeds of these past racers and comparing them to todays is really fair as the went as fast as they needed and weren't pushed by the competition of the day. How fast would this airplane or the Red Baron be today with 30 years of development?

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