February Blahs!

[T. Adams]

Re: February Blahs!

I was at Indy the weekend Blaine Johnson, and Elmer Trett died on back to back days at the US Nationals. It was one long weekend. It was very subdued crowd. They had to do something with NHRA, hitting the wall at 330mph is no picnic. The drivers just don't have the protection due the design of the cars.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: February Blahs!

330 MPH on a quarter mile track is just insane if you think about it.. It's absolutely amazing that they can do it! It'd be even more amazing if someone could figure out how to keep a driver from becoming mincemeat if he crashes at that speed!

I'm afraid speed limiting schemes are here to stay for motorsports, unless someone figures out how to keep safety up to the same pace as speed increases can be achieved..

Whiiiccchhhhh, brings us back to air racing...

I know, there is not much more exciting than what the air sounds and feels like when the airplane is near or exceeding 500mph on the course.. but....

As they move the mark up, obviously more slowly than in other branches of motorsport for obvious reasons, most of all MONEY... aren't we going to be in somewhat of the same situation?

Take the Questair Venture... after they made them go faster than they should go, and after several accidents, culminating in a fatality, from what I understand, the airplane was banned from air racing....

I really wish we didn't have to lose pilots and drivers before stuff gets done that keeps it safer..

I know, to some, even some of my good friends, I'm probably coming off like a real jerk in this thread... it's racing after all, and pushing the envelope is what it's all about but..

Brings me back to when I had a Porche... joined the Porche Club so I could go out on PIR here in PDX.... had a cheap set of oversize Perilli's on my 914, put the "edge" somewhere in a comfy place at a fairly sane speed, but it really felt good playing on that edge.. A lot of guys tried to talk me into spending my money on better rubber for more speed... then I'd have needed better brakes, and then I'd have trouble getting on the edge with the power avalable and would have to improve the engine..

I left her like she was. I already had over stock width tires and nice wheels and didn't have the extra $$ to spend, besides, it was a ball getting that puppy on the edge and holding it there. Right at the speed it was at...

Ok.. I step down off the soapbox and turn the floor over to the rest..

[Peashooter]

Re: February Blahs!

Wayne, the only problem with the logic of restricting speeds in air racing is that so far, it's not normally the fastest guys who crash. And if they do, it's usually due to a mechanical failure that the speed didn't necessarily induce, i.e., Red Baron.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: February Blahs!

I like seeing the cars go faster and faster (planes too), but only if safety improvements can be applied to protect the driver/pilot.

For unlimited aircraft, there's only so much one can do, but for cars I would like to see more protective energy-absorbing barriers instead of unforgiving solid walls...The roll cages and harnesses already do a very good job for roll-overs.

Speaking of top fuelers, did anyone see the episode of Mail Call in which F. Lee Ermey ran a WW-II mil-spec jeep against the Army top fueler? "Gunny" even put a drag chute (hand thrown) on the Jeep. It was hilarious!

Yes I did, and loved it, especially the way the chute just plopped on the ground before it (barely) opened...

Was that the episode where he spoke of the P-51's? I don't recall. several days ago there was a 1-hour program on the History channel about the Mustang, and then the Mail call episode mentioning 'stangs followed it.

Speaking of which, isn't his name "R. Lee Ermey"? (before I actually saw it's spelling, I thought his name was "Arlee Army"... LOL!

[Ron101502]

Re: February Blahs!

In addition to the spec tire, minimum tire pressures, 85% nitro (except at Denver 90%), and max wing for top fuelers put into effect last year, starting this year blower overdrive is limited to 50% (except at Denver), electronic timers can replace pneumatic timers for the fuel/spark/clutch management systems (electronic trigggers but still pneumatic actuators), and starting at Gainsville a soft rev limiter will be required on all nitro cars that doesn't activate until 4 seconds into the run and then cuts rpm by 50 at a time to keep it under 8400. These limits would not have kept any records from being set last season (per "National Dragster magazine".)

The bigger point, on safety issues, is what the main concern of this thread is about, and NASCAR has always been way behind the power curve on safety since they don't seem to care much about their drivers, but now that they are in the limelight they can't afford to have fans see their stars get hurt, so (like in the airline business) safety has become an economic issue.

My big concerns for air racing ar two: First, control surface flutter as homebuilt unlimiteds and/or sport class planes come on the scene, and second, IF new racing venues such as Tunica or Las Vegas materialize (I'll believe it when I see it) they, at least Tunica, will not have multiple long runways on which to deadstick a hurt Unlimited racer, and in fact the race course may not even be over the runway.

Ron Henning

[Race5]

Re: February Blahs!

How in the hell do you put any kind of a rev limiter on a fuel motor? If you cut the spark and then re-spark it, it's going BOOOOM!!!!! Or it will put a cylinder out, then hydraulic, then go BOOM... Nitro and rev limiters won't mix. As much as I hate to say it, let them run a few more cubic inches, more rear gear than they are allowed now, and take the blowers off, or limit them to something the size of a 6-71. Those injected nitro cars that run with the blown alcohol cars are plenty loud enough to keep the crowds hapy, and with a little more cubic inches, and more gear would run at a speed between the alcohol cars and top fuel as we know it now.

[GWB]

Re: February Blahs!

One thing with Nascar's restrictions is that they are trying to achieve parity among the cars to give the fans a better show and presumeably more exciting racing...The unfortunate side effect is that if one of the front runners bobbles, he takes out the 20 cars behind him...
I think the last thing we would want to see is for a whole field of unlimiteds to be bunched up around the pylons. After all they are racing in 3 dimensions, and the visibility is not all that good...and then there is the wake turbulence.... I say string 'em out, and let the two or three fastest battle for the lead....surprisingly, that is what they are doing now.

As for NHRA...It never ceases to amaze me how much they can accomplish in performance in spite of the restrictions they race under..I don't favor restrictions because I want to know how far, how fast they can go...at the same time, I hate to see someone get hurt, but that doesn't stop the curiosity of how far the technology can be pushed. For NHRA, there is one simple solution....move the finishline forward maybe 20 feet at a time...the top speed will drop, but so will the ET's.......

[Apteryx]

Re: February Blahs!

Take the Questair Venture... after they made them go faster than they should go, and after several accidents, culminating in a fatality, from what I understand, the airplane was banned from air racing...

* thread drift alert * (pet peeve)
Wayne-
Not that there aren't design flaws, (which I believe there are on that airplane), but the first time, several of those aircraft, went as fast as the ever had, was at 50 feet. That's just INSANE. There is a reason for parachutes & test pilots. They aren't just guy's with big cajones, they are professionals who know HOW to expand the envelope...Same as the BD-10 crash, the let's just go for it, just validates Darwin...
Soap box back to you....

Paul

[Unregistered]

Re: February Blahs!

Traditional rev limiters WILL blow a nitro engine-these are MSD units that only cut rpm by about 50 rpm per a certain number of milliseconds to keep engines from blowing, and they aren't even activated until 4 seconds into the run. The target rpm of 8400 has never been exceeded by any nitro car (and nobody has ever run as much as 50% blower overdrive except maybe DEN). The new MSD ignition will also somehow prevent traction control which is why NHRA will now allow electronic timers.

As far as bunching airplanes around the pylons, I guess that's why they have gold, silver, and bronze. Any plane starting on the far outside of the formation obviously has a huge disadvantage. I suppose in theory they should start staggered like in a medium distance track meet so each plane travels the same distance on the first lap but that is probably impossible. Another way might be to "invert" the start like some sprint car races do-in other words the fastest planes start outside. But then you'd have sandbaggers so that won't work either.

Like they say, if it ain't broke....

Ron Henning

[Race 29]

Re: February Blahs!

If I could add my 0.2,
I don't believe in all the restrictions being placed on racing. F1 changed to grooved tires to slow the cars down, NASCAR added restricter plates, World Superbike has all the racers using the same tires, all in the interest of racer safety. In reality, it's really just ment to bunch everyone up for closer racing so no one runs away with the win. I personally believe that it's safer to let a racer go faster (if that's their ability) than the rest of the field, rather than keep everyone bunched up in a big group where accidents can happen easier in close quarters. I've roadraced motorcycles for years, and have seen a few of my friends die, but I know the dangers of racing everytime I get on the track. I know the consequences if the "unthinkable" happens. I'm not trying to romanticise it, but think realisticly about it. I'm sure Dale Earnheardt and Gary Levitz knew what could happen when they last strapped in. It's a chance every racer takes. Racing provides a way to test new technology in both safety and speed. Why restrict it? I don't like it anymore than anyone else when a racer is injured (or worse) in any form of racing, but I know that racer took a chance, the same as I did.

As far as Air Racing, it seems to me that if they slowed anyone down, it would be (currently) only 3 or 4 participants. Each with the ability to get pretty close to 500 mph or a little better. Your going to have all of those racers getting bunched up creating an even more unsafe situation, but visually pleasing to most fans. So, that's why I don't buy the argument that it's "all in the interest of safety" when it's really about getting more paying fans through the gate to see a more exciting race. If the planes can go faster, then the technology is there. Even with added safety technology available, some racers won't use it (Dale Earnheardt comes to mind).

Race 29