P-38 Engines

[Sky Critter]

Since all this talk of restoring White Lightning to flying status, regardless of paint, I'm curious about the P-38's engines. If I understand correctly, the Lightning uses Allison V-12's like the Mustang's. Does this mean it's possible to drop in a pair of "hot" Merlins to improve performance? And, if so, would it be enough to compete at the top level? Also, did Lefty ever have the superchargers on White Lightning?

[mayday51]

Re: P-38 Engines

as to Merlin adaption....could be done


....Yes Lefty had the turbo-superchargers in place and functional.

[speeddemon]

Re: P-38 Engines

Remember, though...the P-38 had two 'critical' engines...and it's not as easy to get a Merlin to turn 'backwards' as an Allison. It'd be a hell of a beast to handle, that's for sure....

[tex-fan]

Re: P-38 Engines

Those backwards engines have been giving the twin mustang boys fits for years. They just didn't produce near as many of them.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: P-38 Engines

Superchargers: Back a few messages in this thread, the link I provided will tell the tale of the supercharger on the left engine. Something went terribly wrong with it and we nearly lost the airplane and Lefty's son Ladd in the ensuing drama that took place in the few minutes that could have been his last. Highly suggested reading if you are interested in the fate of the airplane and its history.

Wayne

[Sky Critter]

Re: P-38 Engines

Wayne,
I've read the article...it's great and I've seen Lefty race it several times along with his graceful airshow. I've also made donations to the restoration project in the hopes of seeing them again. I'm happy to hear she'll be back in the air eventually via the folks at RB.

Are there any other P-38 projects in the works or planned?

[glider90]

Re: P-38 Engines

To keep the P-38 thread going, here is another scan from my fathers archives. This was taken at Oshkosh 1974. a friend beleives this is "Fork Tailed Devil" before the aircraft was gone over and stripped to all polished alumninum/with the devil nose art...?
~Jim

[speeddemon]

Re: P-38 Engines

To keep the P-38 thread going, here is another scan from my fathers archives. This was taken at Oshkosh 1974. a friend beleives this is "Fork Tailed Devil" before the aircraft was gone over and stripped to all polished alumninum/with the devil nose art...?
~Jim

Actually, I believe that that aircraft is the 'two-seater' that was at the Champlin Fighter Museum (now at the Museum of Flight). I want to say that John McGuire owned it before it was at Champlin. It had the 'night-fighter' bubble behind the pilot. The markings are consistent with what I remember, and if you look close, it looks like the canopy cover has a hump in it (behind the wing/engine).

Several years ago, that plane was converted to a single-seater. Too bad. I thought it was very unique with the second seat in it.

[aerojock]

Re: P-38 Engines

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by glider90
To keep the P-38 thread going, here is another scan from my fathers archives. This was taken at Oshkosh 1974. a friend beleives this is "Fork Tailed Devil" before the aircraft was gone over and stripped to all polished alumninum/with the devil nose art...?
~Jim


Actually, I believe that that aircraft is the 'two-seater' that was at the Champlin Fighter Museum (now at the Museum of Flight). I want to say that John McGuire owned it before it was at Champlin. It had the 'night-fighter' bubble behind the pilot. The markings are consistent with what I remember, and if you look close, it looks like the canopy cover has a hump in it (behind the wing/engine).

Several years ago, that plane was converted to a single-seater. Too bad. I thought it was very unique with the second seat in it.



Actually I think that plane is at the Lonestar FIlght Museum in Galveston painted as "Putt Putt Maru"

[440_Magnum]

Re: P-38 Engines

as to Merlin adaption....could be done


....Yes Lefty had the turbo-superchargers in place and functional.

White Lightnin' never had turbos in place at any time that *I* ever saw her. She's a late enough model that she certainly doesn't have the hollow wing leading edge intercooler design of the early P-38, but she's been retrofitted with the early P-38 lower nacelle scoops (more aerodynamic than the P-38 J and later "beard" nacelle with a central intercooler and outboard oil cooler intakes). Therefore, she has NO intercooler capability. Also, the turbo location has been faired over and the the exhaust moved forward. And to cap it all off, the "pod" carburetor air intake (located outboard on each boom just below the wing trailing edge) that fed air in the stock configuration has been removed and she spent most of her years with one-of-a-kind scoops atop the booms (and ahead of the exhaust stacks) that funneled air straght down into the carbs.

Looking at the crash pictures on the White Lightnin web site, its clear that she was still in a non-turbo configuration when she crashed.

Now, P-38 Allisons (like all Allison V-1710s) do have a single-stage gear-driven supercharger (which failed causing Ladd Gardner's accident). The design provides far, far less boost than a Merlin 2-stage design and is far smaller. The Allison responded extremely well to turbocharging, and not nearly as much effort was ever put into developing a high-boost mechanical supercharger for the Allison as there was for the Merlin.

[speeddemon]

Re: P-38 Engines

------

Actually I think that plane is at the Lonestar FIlght Museum in Galveston painted as "Putt Putt Maru"

Putt Putt Maru is the former "Der Gabelschwanz Teufel" that Bill Ross owned...the one eluded to in the initial post.

The one in the picture is not that airplane. I thought it was owned by John McGuire, but then I remembered I got my 'John's' mixed up. The plane in the photo was a rare "M" model, owned by John Stokes of San Marcos Texas, prior to being bought by Doug Champlin in the early 80's. This is the 'two seater' that appeared in an episode of Baa Baa Blacksheep too.

And of note, this plane was actually registered on the entry list (with Stokes as owner, but I can't remember the scheduled pilot) as Race #3 for the 1979 race at Homestead. Unfortunately, it never showed up. THAT would have been cool to see THREE P-38's racing together! If you look in the pic, you'll see the #3 on the boom.

[wingman]

Re: P-38 Engines

Here's the 2 seat airplane in August 1980. Anybody know what the faired object under the wing root is?

Neal

[Leo]

Re: P-38 Engines

Supercharger air intake.
Merlin power was proposed with the "K" model but shelved at the study level as not necessary. As advanced as the P-38 was for it's time it was still a fairly draggy airframe, I doubt that merlins would have been a quantum leap.
My understanding was White Lightnin had the turbo's removed back in the Sky Ranger days, and the pre-J model naceles added.

Leo

[mayday51]

Re: P-38 Engines

440,

I'll stand corrected. Thanks.

.....seems that at Santa Maria airport there were most if not all the peices to
returbo the plane,and I assumed she had been.

Thanks again for the help.

[440_Magnum]

Re: P-38 Engines

Here's the 2 seat airplane in August 1980. Anybody know what the faired object under the wing root is?

Neal

That's the original engine air intake that I mentioned in the post about the turbos. White Lightnin' has had her intakes relocated to the top of the nacelle, but those pods are still there in many photos (though plugged, if you look closely and the light is just right) and removed completely in others.

Here's a link that shows a whole lot of things I've been talking about: First, you can very clearly see the sheet metal that's been added just aft of the exhaust stack to fill in the large circular opening where the turbocharger originally sat. The circular joint where the metal plug meets the original fueslage metal is highlighted by the angle of light especially on the nearer boom just above the star insignia. Second, you can see the non-stock relocated air intake scoops just forward of the exhaust pipes, and finally on the near boom you can see the remaining original air intake "pod" just in front of the star insignia.

http://p38whitelightnin.com/gallery/general/images/pages.php?directory=.&currentPic=21

Here's one where you can see that the pod is plugged:

http://p38whitelightnin.com/gallery/general/images/pages.php?directory=.&currentPic=6

And finally, a time in the life of Race 13 when the pod was removed completely:

http://p38whitelightnin.com/gallery/general/images/pages.php?directory=.&currentPic=9