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Thread: I?m gonna be that guy?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
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    Ellensburg, WA
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    117

    Default Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

    I wanted to say something on this thread, since I am the person who suggested in the other thread that we not discuss details here.

    First off, I agree with everything suggested above. This was my 25th year at the air races, which makes me kind of a newbie, compared to some here. Still, in that time, I have witnessed tragedy - along with some of the best airmanship imaginable. I fully accept the inherent risks. As I mentioned in my other reply, I'm already looking forward to next year. That said, understanding the risks still doesn't make it easier when it happens.

    Of the other accidents I've seen, this and 2011 were the only ones where the accident ended the week early. In 2011, I was there with my entire family, so we had each other for the drive home. This year, I was there with only one other friend, and we were in different vehicles. This meant that this was the last thing I experienced before I was on the road by myself for a little over 12 hours yesterday, and it was a difficult time.

    When I suggested that we not discuss details of the accident on this site, it was not intended to stop people from trying to process what happened. Like Thomas above, talking through the technical details is one of the main ways that I settle my own mind. The friend that was there with me is retired from a career in aviation, so we had a couple of hours on Sunday evening to talk about it before the drive home. Since coming home, we've spoke on the phone in even more detail. My dad was a career pilot with somewhere around 35K hours. I lost him a few years ago (not aviation related). We would have helped each other through it.

    The reason that I suggest that we not talk about details here and now, is that we are a public forum. Anything said here can be picked up and repeated - potentially in the media, and potentially embellished. And when it gets repeated, it may not be presented in the right context. My fear is putting the air races, and even aviation itself, in a bad light. I also wish to fully respect the pilot, the family and friends, and others involved in the sport, especially as they are going through a very difficult time right now.

    From the comments here, I think that there probably is a pretty good understanding of what happened. But I would rather let the NTSB say it, than have it appear in the press form "anonymous sources involved with the sport".

  2. #12

    Default Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by wadeh View Post
    From the comments here, I think that there probably is a pretty good understanding of what happened. But I would rather let the NTSB say it, than have it appear in the press form "anonymous sources involved with the sport".
    But what harm exactly does that do? Serious question. And I, and others, have genuine issues with the way the NTSB does or doesn't do things, and I'm not saying that as DG disciple or anything.
    Last edited by Ryanshort1; 09-20-2022 at 05:20 PM.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ellensburg, WA
    Posts
    117

    Default Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

    I believe that the FAA and NTSB have a good understanding of what happens at the air races. I believe that most of the fans also have a good idea. Prior to 2011, I doubt that many folks outside of the above groups even knew that the races existed. All of that changed when spectators were harmed. That got the attention of both the mainstream media and a part of the population in general.

    The concern is that, at the top, there are politics in the aviation agencies. If there is enough public outrage (Cancel Culture, anyone?), there could be a call to do something...for the children. I think that most of the folks here are both educated in aviation, and probably fairly technical. We know that the best way to make something better, safer, etc. is to deeply analyze it so that we can understand and address failures. This is a very good thing, that has made air travel as safe and convenient as it is today. But bringing in random people who don't necessarily have these qualities or education, can bring about unintended consequences. And today's media loves a sensational story.

    The analysis and conversations must happen. But personally, I think that holding the conversation in the public spotlight is perilous.

    Maybe the solution is to create a private forum, where you need to be a member to read the threads. As I mentioned, I've spent most of the last couple of days thinking and talking about this...just not here.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    386

    Default Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

    We can absolutely criticize the air races and I made no mention of anything to contradict that. If this venue can be made safer, then by all means, we need to explore them. When you race a modified old jet, at 500 mph, 50 feet off the deck, a pilot knows and understands there is ZERO margin for error and the time to react to an issue is milliseconds. Hobby pilot or professional sponsored racer does not matter. The mere facts/dangers of air racing are known to everyone that climbs in a cockpit of one of these planes.

    In this instance, last years jet class ?rookie of the year? perished trying to be #1. Right, wrong, or indifferent, it is what it is. Could there be more mandates/rules passed to make it safer? Maybe/possibly.

    I?m still waiting for the ?official? report explaining why this young soul perished and until then, we can speculate all we want. In fact, it?s prob healthy to do so. This isn?t the thread for that but I would love to partake in one that does?
    "CHARLIE DON'T SURF!!!"

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    Pacific Northwest
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    8,694

    Default Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt58 View Post
    And Wayne, thank you for providing an outlet for us. This has been on my mind since I left the field yesterday and I owe you for providing us with a place to share our thoughts and feelings!!
    I recoil at the sight of a minor injury, I hate to admit, my whole body reacts... I could never do what you guys do but having had to be taken to hospital three times in last year and half... I CAN NEVER THANK YOU ENOUGH!
    Wayne Sagar
    "Pusher of Electrons"

  6. #16
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    Mar 2002
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    Pacific Northwest
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    8,694

    Default Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

    Quote Originally Posted by CubersWrist View Post
    I saw it go in...As an engineer understanding how and why something happens is how I cope.
    Sincerely,
    "Young" Thomas
    knowing how something happens makes it more bearable.
    Wayne Sagar
    "Pusher of Electrons"

  7. #17

    Default Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

    Here's a thought to address things being taken out of context. Why don't we move the technical discussion to the " Restricted Forum - Warbird Hardcore - None But The Brave" part of the forum? Yep, admin will need to grant clearance to people who wish to talk about it there, but at least its secure.

    Will

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Portland, Or
    Posts
    1,221

    Default Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

    I am sorry but the idea that a discussion on a message board of what may have happened could influence an FAA investigation or ruling and/or somehow being more damaging to the sport than the fireball that played on the evening news is fantasy land stuff to me.

    No disrespect intended, and I understand that it is born out of the fact this air racing thing is precious to all of us, but if we are seriously worried that an out of context conversation can be that impactful, we all need to take a long look at what we are talking about, because to me that feels like WE KNOW this is too dangerous so we are worried that not using the correct language will fail to conceal that.

    I completely understand the issue surrounding grieving family members and not smearing a recently dead persons name, but I dont think that is what anyone here would ever do. Its important to keep a distinction between what that looks like and what a bunch of people talking through a traumatic event they just witnessed looks like.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Whanganui, NZ
    Posts
    274

    Default Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

    I am personally of the mind that speculation is a healthy way to cope, but offline or in private conversation. I explained this situation to my wife who pointed out family and friends of the deceased could stumble upon such discussion. I don't envy the admins when an event like this occurs and I don't personally have a solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt58 View Post
    I?m still waiting for the ?official? report
    We all are, and it will be some time before the report is out.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    2,218

    Default Re: I?m gonna be that guy?

    I think this whole "don't discuss what could have happened because it's disrespectful to the family" is a bit overboard. Heck, on Monday one of the young girls that grew up with Aaron as part of his close friends/family already said her theory of what happened publicly in an Instagram post...
    *My Air Race Site*

    Reno from '99 to '21

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