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Thread: Sounds like there is some trash talking happening in the Unlimited world...

  1. #1

    Default Sounds like there is some trash talking happening in the Unlimited world...

    "
    All else is moving along nicely. Dusty seems to think his Yak will get around Argonaut this year. I love positive thinking but, NOT. Call me anytime. If I missed anyone wanting to go racing get me their email please.

    Cheers,

    Sherm
    Sherman G. Smoot
    President, Unlimited Race Class"




    I seem to remember Sherm with a certain Yak all over him in 2016... Argo qualified at 383 and change, a pretty average speed for it. Finished at 365... Dusty qualified at 362.7, won Silver at 376.1

    With all the new mods Dusty is doing to the Yak, it should be a 400+ mph racer. I don't know if Argo has it. When you add in the other two Yaks both running R2000s, with similar mods to Dusty's Yak, I think Sherm might be looking at Yak tails this year.

    Will

  2. #2

    Default Re: Sounds like there is some trash talking happening in the Unlimited world...

    [QUOTE=

    With all the new mods Dusty is doing to the Yak, it should be a 400+ mph racer. I don't know if Argo has it. When you add in the other two Yaks both running R2000s, with similar mods to Dusty's Yak, I think Sherm might be looking at Yak tails this year.

    Will[/QUOTE]


    There is a solution to that problem....




    ...Race 86

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    NV
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    1,780

    Default Re: Sounds like there is some trash talking happening in the Unlimited world...

    Look out. If "Tiger" is offered enough of the green stuff "Strega" may come out & beat them all.
    Lockheed Bob

  4. #4

    Default Re: Sounds like there is some trash talking happening in the Unlimited world...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lockheed Bob View Post
    Look out. If "Tiger" is offered enough of the green stuff "Strega" may come out & beat them all.
    I don't think Tiger is going to bring Strega out just yet. Give it 5 years. That said, we do have a pair of wildcards in Jim Rust and Jeff Lavelle. Jim just took his bird to Chino, and from what I can tell, Jeffs bird has been there since last year. We could see Jeff's plane looking quite different, or looking much the same, but with a RR3 type setup. Who knows. We also have Miss A. We don't know if they will be back or not, nor do we know if they will have a hot(er) engine.

    I don't think any of the Yaks will beat Miss A or Dreadnought, but, we could have one hell of a race for 3rd. And, like I said, we don't know what Jeff's bird is looking like. I don't think there is enough time for Jim's plane to see serious mods, but we might see something. Heck, they might have been working on stuff for quite a while in order to have everything ready for a fast swap. Who knows? He's going to have to do PRS, so unless he's in a borrowed plane while his is at Chino being worked on, so there really isn't a whole lot of time to do anything major.

    I think there is a very good chance that the Yaks will be in front of 924 and Argo.

    Will

  5. #5

    Default Re: Sounds like there is some trash talking happening in the Unlimited world...

    Trash talking gives me hope. Knowing that Lavelle is prepping his mustang to perhaps Super Stocker configuration gives me more hope.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Sounds like there is some trash talking happening in the Unlimited world...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigger Al View Post
    Trash talking gives me hope. Knowing that Lavelle is prepping his mustang to perhaps Super Stocker configuration gives me more hope.
    I don't know what Lavelle and Rust are doing with their planes. Apparently Rust flew up to Chino, and then went back home with it. Still, when you look at who has stepped up, you have to wonder why they wouldn't build their birds to go fast since they are all faster in their Sport racers than they are in a stock Mustang. They likely didn't buy a P-51 or Shockwave just to be slower than their Sport class ride. That is a HUGE expense just to go play in a different field. The logical way to look at it is that the sport class racers are pretty well tapped out speed wise, so to go faster, they need to go old school and more displacement. They likely had long discussions with their sponsors and enough were on board to fund the buildup of a fast unlimited class racer. These guys aren't exactly flush with $$$$$ (except possibly Jeff Lavelle) so they will need to rely on sponsorship to cover a lot of the costs. Clearly winning the unlimiteds isn't going to pay to field one (But that could change in the same way many of these same people changed the Sport class. They went out and got sponsors for the class. Perhaps this is already in the works for the unlimited class.)

    Two of the 4 sport pilots who have stepped up are working with totally unproven designs. One has flown, but not in the configuration that it will be raced in (not even remotely close). The other has never flown (Shockwave.) They both need serious amounts of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to make the projects fly.

    Since Jim is sponsored by a propeller manufacturer, I'll bet his mustang, or he and Jeff will be the first to show up with a modern prop blade design. (We know how previous attempts at building a custom P-51 prop has gone in the past. They have blown up in the test cell and never actually flown with them. ) That development will cost huge $$$$$$$$$$$ and time. Once its done and proven, there will be new blades for others to run should they want to. In addition to this, the other two project planes will likely bring their own interesting new tech to the class as well.

    It doesn't make financial sense to drop $2M+ for a P-51 just to run it stock these days. The guys who go racing with stock stangs are long time owners who want to say they did it. New guys who are known to be some of the fastest guys in their class don't bump up to an exponentially more expensive class without major backing, and who is willing to fund the program just to race a stock plane at speeds slower than the sport class? Again, not a good business move. Going all in to win outright, that makes a lot more sense. But to do that, it will require more $ on top of the several million dollar buy in to mod the planes to do so. Perhaps we will see two RR3 clones to go with the unproven projects. Perhaps we will see 2 fully modded Mustangs to go with the unproven designs, and eventually Tsunami, giving us 5 potential 500 mph airplanes again. If this happens, we could very well see the return of Strega (because they will have someone to race against) Voodoo, possibly Rare Bear and perhaps, just maybe, the return of Dago Red. (Who knows, the owner has said he's waiting to see what happens with the class before he decides to rebuild it or not. That said, there could be another Sport class guy who is looking to step up, and a deal is struck for it and it returns that way. Hard to say, but the possibility is there. ) There is also the Yak project in Redding that is still in the works. I've tried calling him to find out more about it, but he isn't answering the phone and is voicemail is full so I can't leave a message.

    The class is not dead. It is changing, and knowing who has what, and what is in the works behind closed doors has me really excited for the future. (I really wish I could share what I know about the two unproven projects, but as I've said before, I've been sworn to secrecy until details are publicly released about them.)


    There is lots to be hopeful about. Will it happen this year? Perhaps not, but 2027 looks to be a good year for some magic to happen. Keep the faith, the dream to run 500+ is still alive. People are actively working to make it happen. We just need to give them the time and support to make it happen.

    Will

  7. #7

    Default Re: Sounds like there is some trash talking happening in the Unlimited world...

    Quote Originally Posted by RAD2LTR View Post
    I don't know what Lavelle and Rust are doing with their planes. Apparently Rust flew up to Chino, and then went back home with it. Still, when you look at who has stepped up, you have to wonder why they wouldn't build their birds to go fast since they are all faster in their Sport racers than they are in a stock Mustang. They likely didn't buy a P-51 or Shockwave just to be slower than their Sport class ride. That is a HUGE expense just to go play in a different field. The logical way to look at it is that the sport class racers are pretty well tapped out speed wise, so to go faster, they need to go old school and more displacement. They likely had long discussions with their sponsors and enough were on board to fund the buildup of a fast unlimited class racer. These guys aren't exactly flush with $$$$$ (except possibly Jeff Lavelle) so they will need to rely on sponsorship to cover a lot of the costs. Clearly winning the unlimiteds isn't going to pay to field one (But that could change in the same way many of these same people changed the Sport class. They went out and got sponsors for the class. Perhaps this is already in the works for the unlimited class.)

    Two of the 4 sport pilots who have stepped up are working with totally unproven designs. One has flown, but not in the configuration that it will be raced in (not even remotely close). The other has never flown (Shockwave.) They both need serious amounts of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to make the projects fly.

    Since Jim is sponsored by a propeller manufacturer, I'll bet his mustang, or he and Jeff will be the first to show up with a modern prop blade design. (We know how previous attempts at building a custom P-51 prop has gone in the past. They have blown up in the test cell and never actually flown with them. ) That development will cost huge $$$$$$$$$$$ and time. Once its done and proven, there will be new blades for others to run should they want to. In addition to this, the other two project planes will likely bring their own interesting new tech to the class as well.

    It doesn't make financial sense to drop $2M+ for a P-51 just to run it stock these days. The guys who go racing with stock stangs are long time owners who want to say they did it. New guys who are known to be some of the fastest guys in their class don't bump up to an exponentially more expensive class without major backing, and who is willing to fund the program just to race a stock plane at speeds slower than the sport class? Again, not a good business move. Going all in to win outright, that makes a lot more sense. But to do that, it will require more $ on top of the several million dollar buy in to mod the planes to do so. Perhaps we will see two RR3 clones to go with the unproven projects. Perhaps we will see 2 fully modded Mustangs to go with the unproven designs, and eventually Tsunami, giving us 5 potential 500 mph airplanes again. If this happens, we could very well see the return of Strega (because they will have someone to race against) Voodoo, possibly Rare Bear and perhaps, just maybe, the return of Dago Red. (Who knows, the owner has said he's waiting to see what happens with the class before he decides to rebuild it or not. That said, there could be another Sport class guy who is looking to step up, and a deal is struck for it and it returns that way. Hard to say, but the possibility is there. ) There is also the Yak project in Redding that is still in the works. I've tried calling him to find out more about it, but he isn't answering the phone and is voicemail is full so I can't leave a message.

    The class is not dead. It is changing, and knowing who has what, and what is in the works behind closed doors has me really excited for the future. (I really wish I could share what I know about the two unproven projects, but as I've said before, I've been sworn to secrecy until details are publicly released about them.)


    There is lots to be hopeful about. Will it happen this year? Perhaps not, but 2027 looks to be a good year for some magic to happen. Keep the faith, the dream to run 500+ is still alive. People are actively working to make it happen. We just need to give them the time and support to make it happen.

    Will
    I hope you're right.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Location
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    2,173

    Default Re: Sounds like there is some trash talking happening in the Unlimited world...

    All good thoughts Will.

    There's always the possibility that Jim and Jeff bought Mustangs to have fun with, and to race stock to fill up the field. That's still definitely on the table, but I don't think it's true -

    *Jeff ran the crap out of Sweet and Lovely last year. Having the fastest qualifying Sport racer to date, keeping the Mustang stock doesn't fit his personality. He wants to win every race, and he did that last year (albeit Silver, he still WON).

    *Jim bought a Mustang that wasn't publicly listed for sale anywhere. A Mustang with a pretty solid racing history, and a Mustang that still has clean gun-port-less wings. This wasn't on accident. That plane is also registered in Reno, NV. The Glasair is registered to his home in El Cajon, CA. If the Mustang didn't have SOME tie to being a future racer (whether stock or not), I don't see why it would be registered in Reno rather than El Cajon (?) (or even Delaware ie LLC as Jeff did with Sweet and Lovely).

    Maybe reaching, but the proof is there...
    *My Air Race Site*

    Reno from '99 to '21

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Seattle, Washington
    Posts
    1,995

    Default Re: Sounds like there is some trash talking happening in the Unlimited world...

    Quote Originally Posted by RAD2LTR View Post
    (We know how previous attempts at building a custom P-51 prop has gone in the past. They have blown up in the test cell and never actually flown with them. )
    Not a true statement. The Skyprop was the only propeller that 'blew up in the test cell', and aside from being test-fitted on Risky Business by Bill Montagne just to get the 'fit' and 'size' of the blades in the hub, it was never run on a Mustang, nor was it a custom P-51 prop.

    Tiger's "Tiger Claw" was actually a very expensive, well-researched design built by U.S. Propeller Service. It was flown--in multiple configurations--by Tiger on Strega, both in testing at Shafter as well as on the course at Reno during qualifying/practice in 1995/96. The design theory was solid, and Kerch felt that with more testing it could have seen an appreciative jump in speed. But Tiger was uncomfortable with the instability it gave the Mustang...similar to what the 3 blade on the Bear did on the course, and (if you read the latest issue of Golden Pylons that had the story about Cobra III) the big 4-blade paddle prop on the P-39 racers. Those issues could have been overcome with more tail area and testing.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    SYRACUSE, KANSAS
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    33

    Default Re: Sounds like there is some trash talking happening in the Unlimited world...

    TELL YOU WHAT BOYS AND GIRLS, I'M ABOUT EXCITED FOR RENO '22 AS I HAVE BEEN IN YEARS. IT LOOKS LIKE FOUR NEW MUSTANGS RACING, REGARDLESS OF HOW HARD, AND WE ARE NOW DOWN TO MAYBE THREE YAKS THAT ALL COULD RUN 400 OR SO. IT'S INTERESTING TO READ HOW SOME ARE SEEMINGLY FORLORN ABOUT NO 500MPH MACHINES IN THE MIX, BUT WHILE I PERSONALLY DO MISS THAT, I AM PRETTY CONTENT IN ANTICIPATING SOME REAL CLOSE COMPETITION IN THE HIGH 300'S/LOW 400'S. YOU KNOW, THE MAJORITY OF THE MUSTANGS RUNNING HAVE A POWER SETTING THAT THEY'RE COMFORTABLE WITH AND CAN'T AFFORD OR WANT TO TAKE THE RISK OF BREAKING THE MERLIN AND HAVE A +$200K BILL, ASSUMING THEY DON'T HURT THEMSELVES OR THE AIRFRAMES AT THE SAME TIME. IN MY OPINION, IT'S STILL GREAT THAT THEY RUN AROUND THE PYLONS AND PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD COME TO SEE THEM.
    WHEN I RAN THE YAK LAST, IN 2016, ALL THE LEVERS WERE ALL THE WAY FORWARD AND THE SPINNER/AFTERBODY AND ADI MADE THE DIFFERENCE. THE PILOT WAS JUST HANGING ON. AND AS I'VE SAID IN PAST MESSAGES, IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR NELSON, CHAD, AND JEFF ABBOT, I WOULD NEVER HAVE MADE THE VOYAGE AND MADE THE SPEED INCREASE. IT'S GREAT FUN NEEDLEING SHERM ABOUT BEATING ARGONAUT, BUT IN TRUTH, LIKE I DID IN FORMULA 1, I RACE THE CLOCK AND IT'S MY GREATEST PLEASURE TO SEE HOW MY MODS DID, GOOD OR BAD. THE TRUTH IS, IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE THAT THE ONLY TIME YOU REALLY REALLY GET TO SEE WHAT THE MACHINE IS CAPABLE OF IS IN QUALIFYING. ONCE YOU GET RACING, THE COMPETITION INTERFERES WITH GOING THE FASTEST SO YOU DON'T GET TO FLY YOUR COURSE UNLESS YOU'RE IN FRONT. SO, TO ME, QUALIFYING TELLS THE REST OF THE STORY.
    SO, I HOPE EVERYBODY IS ON BOARD AND AS EXCITED AS I AM. I WORK ON THE YAK EVERY DAY AND SEE VERY LITTLE PROGRESS, BUT PRESSING ON IS THE ONLY OPTION. AND I HOPE SHERM DOESN'T GET TOO TIRED OF SEEING MY RUDDER.
    REGARDS TO ALL....
    DUSTY
    PS: AS AN ASIDE, IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR SHERM AND DENNIS, I WOULD NEVER HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO RACE AGAIN BECAUSE THOSE GUYS GOT A SPECIAL ROOKIE SCHOOL FOR ME, BILL SHEPHERD, AND LITTLE JOHN MUSZALA, SO I AM INDEBTED TO THOSE GUYS AND HOLD THEM IN MY HIGHEST ESTEEM. THEY HAVE BEEN THE GLUE THAT HAS HELD THE CLASS TOGETHER AND I HOPE EVERYONE KNOWS THAT...............

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