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  • The Future of AAFO

    I'll start by begging forgivness from Wayne for starting this thread; however, Wayne raised what I regarded as a serious question in the middle of another thread and I felt it deserved to have it's own voice...so, here we go. Again, this is me talking...and I don't wish to put any words in his or anyone else's mouth.

    And Wayne, forgive me for speaking about you in this context, as if you wouldn't be reading this. It is meant solely as a kudo to you for all you've done for all of us over the years. All respect...none withheld.

    From what I can gather, over the last few years it's become increasingly apparent that the traffic on AAFO continues to decline. Visits are down, comments are down, and from what I gather from Wayne's recent post it is now a question as to whether or not the return on Wayne's investment in time, effort, energy and money is worth it. Especially given Wayne's recent health issues. I'd suspect keeping this forum up and running smoothly is challenge under the best of circumstances. Cannot imagine doing so at less than 100%.

    I don't suppose to know all the in's and out's about this forum. Many of you on here have been around for a long, long time (some of you longer than you care to remember I suspect!). I'm a relative new-comer in that regard. But I do wonder how those of you who are "longer in the AAFO tooth" feel about this forum. I don't have all the numbers (Wayne certain does) but it does seem to me that based on comments Wayne has made over the last few years and the traffic and interest is fading.

    I would certainly hate to see this forum go dark...I enjoy the stories, images, annecdotes, and back and forth about the history of this sport as well as the current state of things. It's a good place to express, vent, offer opinions, debate, and just generally stay in touch. And yes, from time to time, even now, there are threads that get a bit testy. Human nature I suppose. Hopefully nobody's feelings were scarred beyond repair.

    I must say however, I also hope Wayne is not burning the candle at both ends just to keep us alive on this forum.

    At some point, Wayne, you have to do what is best for YOU...not us AAFO'ers. If maintaining this site is becoming more of a burden than a blessing, let it go. Take care of yourself. Do what you have to do make sure you are enjoying life after 70, my friend! No doubt you've earned it!

    Will I miss this site if/when it's full stop...you bet. And I suspect many others will as well. And while that may be a factor in keeping AAFO alive, it should NOT be the driving force for Wayne.

    Wayne, you certainly don't need my or anyone else's blessing, permission, green-light, or thumbs-up to call it a day. And this post is not meant to do so...I'd never suppose to do that. Just voicing my thoughts about the future of AAFO and my thanks for many, many years of keeping us ducks in some semblence of a row.

    Whatever you decide and whenever that may be, you've got my support, my friend.
    Owen Ashurst
    Performer Air Boss - Reno Air Races
    http://airbossone.com/

  • #2
    Re: The Future of AAFO

    Owen, It's really a difficult question for me. I will admit to indulging in a couple adult beverages the other night when I posted my "rant" but... as for financial outlay, as I've stated, the separate account that I've set up for donations and ad revenue had accumulated enough to "pay it forward" where I got a nice introductory price for a year lease on a server. So, until about next February or so, I'm not paying a monthly fee out of pocket as I did before.

    When I started AAFO, there really wasn't any other place doing it.. when I put in the first message board software, it truly was just about the only place... this was well before facebook or any of the other's. Back then, I truly NEEDED to bring in $$ as I'd involuntarily wound up single, out of work and with a big ass dream that I could pull off living on my retirement and whatever I could pull down selling photos, doing promotional work, building websites... anything.

    I'm now "comfortably" retired, as long as I keep my expenses in line with my income.. as of the moment, AAFO is not a financial burdon..

    My frustration is simply the numbers.. we're a pretty darn small club here at AAfo.COM... I think what did it is when I saw the few members who had read Jan's post, it just hit me that nobody really cares.

    As for Desertdog's comment that I'm pretty much the problem... I did vent a bit when I realized that what I'd been told was possible, to digitally alter a photograph in order to increase prop blur, something that has been privately rumored amongst those of us who do not "shop" our photos that has been done to some of the more amazing shots we've seen over the years... sorry, I can show you an example in the very magazine that Jan's article is in... reflection in wing tanks shows original unaltered prop blur, as published, it has been increased greatly... just seems not fair to me..

    Still torn Owen... honestly, I'm on the fence for even going this year... smoke, unvaccinated idiots, maskless masses... 70 now and simply have to be honest with myself about my health... that and I never really got over Jimmy.... I just don't know anymore.....
    Wayne Sagar
    "Pusher of Electrons"

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Future of AAFO

      Wayne,
      I can only imagine what the thought of shutting this down does to your psyche. It's been your baby for quite a long time.

      Glad to hear it isn't a financial burden, at least not at this point.

      But the much more important issue is your health and well-being. I understand completely when you voice concerns about all the unknowns out there this year. Only made more of a concern for someone whose health is perhaps not quite what it should be.

      Thanks for not taking offense in my posting. I thought about it quite a bit before hitting the button.

      Whatever you decide...decide for yourself, Wayne. Not for us. It's your sand and your sandbox...we just bring the shovels and buckets.
      Owen Ashurst
      Performer Air Boss - Reno Air Races
      http://airbossone.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Future of AAFO

        I, for one, agree with Owen and would like to add something. THIS Forum is the Only place to get true facts you can trust without the FB police getting involved. I won?t use the word NAZI because that is reserved for a Special person. I cannot take a photo of things in motion as the ?Pros? on here. I am humbled by their products that they share here. Yes, I am on FB but I do not look there for Aviation related news. IT IS HERE !!! There are so many Forum?s to leave your content NOT like in FB. Too many things get lost there !!! If you want to recall an article or statement from someone it is preempted by 40 to 50 off topic entries. On this site, AAFO, it is right HERE !!! I will now put my money where my mouth is and make a donation in hopes this site does NOT go by way of the Dodo !!!

        Beachboss

        I Still wish I was able to work with you Owen ! I just have to accept third place.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Future of AAFO

          My frustration is not limited to the visitation to this site! For over 20 years (since '97) I've had the dream that the sport could be grown... Lots of folks have done their best to further the cause, Bob Avery certainly spent a lot of out of pocket cash in his efforts to get a second event going in Las Vegas as well as his World of Wings pilot episode and a lot else.. Sam Bousfield came up with the idea of having an easy to set up air race "show" event that could happen anywhere there was an airshow. Pilots would fly around branded inflatable pylons to SUPPORT RENO and help grow interest in the "BIG ONE" which would be Reno at the end of the airshow season.. he presented it to Red Bull, they basically stole it and became much more well known than Reno Air Races...

          9 times out of 10, you ask someone about air racing and they will tell you about RBAR, not NCAR...

          They are even using the phrase "world's fastest motorsport" I asked RARA if they owned that trademark... they don't know...

          Anyway...

          I guess that's where the "does anyone give a rip" question in my rants comes from

          Thanks for the support BB
          Wayne Sagar
          "Pusher of Electrons"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Future of AAFO

            Originally posted by beachboss View Post
            I, for one, agree with Owen and would like to add something. THIS Forum is the Only place to get true facts you can trust without the FB police getting involved. I won?t use the word NAZI because that is reserved for a Special person. I cannot take a photo of things in motion as the ?Pros? on here. I am humbled by their products that they share here. Yes, I am on FB but I do not look there for Aviation related news. IT IS HERE !!! There are so many Forum?s to leave your content NOT like in FB. Too many things get lost there !!! If you want to recall an article or statement from someone it is preempted by 40 to 50 off topic entries. On this site, AAFO, it is right HERE !!! I will now put my money where my mouth is and make a donation in hopes this site does NOT go by way of the Dodo !!!

            Beachboss

            I Still wish I was able to work with you Owen ! I just have to accept third place.
            Thanks BB. Sure is nice to be talking to planes again!

            This forum is in many ways a repository for the history of this crazy sport. Hopefully no matter when it does go dark all the data can be preserved...if for no other reason than a resource. I certainly hope so.
            Owen Ashurst
            Performer Air Boss - Reno Air Races
            http://airbossone.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Future of AAFO

              Thanks for starting this new thread Owen, I managed to steal Jan Tegler's fire with my rant hijacking his post.... In an effort to move the posts from that thread to here, I just managed to delete them all... how? I'm not at all sure, I'd copied the entire thread with new subject and then deleted all of the off topic stuff from Jan's thread, and went to the newly copied thread and when I went to delete Jan's original posts from there so that the newly created thread only contained my rant and replies to it and I managed to delete the entire thread...

              Some of the admin features are still not working correctly for me... I should be able to split threads and have had little success doing so lately...

              anyway.. at least Jan's thread is no longer hijacked and I've "stuck" it...
              Wayne Sagar
              "Pusher of Electrons"

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Future of AAFO

                And just a quick observation....

                To a point made by "Dawg" elsewhere, this post has had almost 140 views...and a total of 7 comments....6 by the poster and you, Wayne.

                That speaks to the heart of the matter...
                Owen Ashurst
                Performer Air Boss - Reno Air Races
                http://airbossone.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Future of AAFO

                  Like I've been saying... it is no longer up to me to try to make National Championship Air Raes a household word!

                  I'm pretty happy with what uploads I've managed over the years.. I think we were first in a lot of ways.. I sure remember a lot of nights in the old press shack hooked to the net via some flaky ass connection..

                  No matter how this all works out, I've got a lot of positive memories...
                  Wayne Sagar
                  "Pusher of Electrons"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Future of AAFO

                    Originally posted by AAFO_WSagar View Post
                    No matter how this all works out, I've got a lot of positive memories...
                    Wayne,

                    You should be damm proud of what you have done young man. Over it's lifetime, you got a lot of people to engage and share here.

                    Hopefully this is the building block for a future National Air Race Historical Archive (photos/stories/anecdotes).

                    In your honor there will have to be a section called "Waynes World" or "Sagars Stories":-)

                    As you have repeatedly heard from all of us, thank you, thank you, thank you, for having kept this place alive for so many years.

                    Hans

                    Last edited by Desertdawg; 08-15-2021, 07:07 AM. Reason: typos

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Future of AAFO

                      Yes Yes Thank you Wayne for all you have done over the years in promoting the Reno Air Races. I've been attending Air Racing since 1946 plus hundreds of Air Shows & your forum is the only GREAT one dedicated to the RARA event.
                      Lockheed Bob

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Future of AAFO

                        Originally posted by Air Boss View Post
                        And just a quick observation....

                        To a point made by "Dawg" elsewhere, this post has had almost 140 views...and a total of 7 comments....6 by the poster and you, Wayne.

                        That speaks to the heart of the matter...
                        As a member since 2003-ish (and Pylon 1 before that), I'll give a potential reason for the "lurker" situation. I used to respond to messages much more in the past, when I was new to the sport and didn't know the history, people, or events. I would ask questions in order to learn and become educated, until that one time when I got my head bit off by one of the more respected contributors. Since then, don't post much. I still visit every day because you never know what gems you'll find in a post, but I'm just a viewer mostly, a dedicated viewer. I've seen other "arguments" on this and numerous other boards, where people get their panties twisted and that tends to turn people away. I've stuck around, but how many leave and don't come back? I would hate to see this place disappear, but I echo Air Boss' sentiments about Wayne taking care of priority #1.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Future of AAFO

                          Originally posted by marada mx3 View Post
                          until that one time when I got my head bit off by one of the more respected contributors. Since then, don't post much.
                          You nailed it young man, there is probably a similar reason for everyone that has disappeared here.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Future of AAFO

                            I remember the AAFO annual photo contest someone started. Had categories, got entries, announced winner.

                            Then poof the person that had the good idea just disappeared, always wondered if feathers got ruffled?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Future of AAFO

                              Yep...seems this site has been the MMA of forums from time to time over the years. Lots of Alpha males not afraid to speak their minds.

                              Sadly, that does little to inspire others to contribute...especially those with less experience or even new comers...have we had any lately?

                              Folks on here will disagree about all manner of things. Inevitable. But at some point it should be left for folks to agree to disagree and move on without moving away.
                              Owen Ashurst
                              Performer Air Boss - Reno Air Races
                              http://airbossone.com/

                              Comment

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