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Thread: Pic of a a Messerschmitt 109 G-6 !

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Pic of a a Messerschmitt 109 G-6 !

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbs View Post
    a little correction:

    some german book/magazine articles are saying, that latest 109 K-4 model was able to do 453 mph @ 19700 ft
    (with MAP 1,98 ata, ADI and 100-octane fuel = ca. 2000 hp); weight wasn't very much higher than G-10 model, ca. 5300 lb empty (only because of fully closed gear doors and retractable tail wheel).

    DB 605 ASC engine surely has potential for further tuning, but at low altitude in above condition (no spraybar etc.) I think it could be a contender for stock P-51

    Gibbs
    It would be pretty interesting if someone tuned the 109 K to go 500+ mph.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Pic of a a Messerschmitt 109 G-6 !

    Hmm.... 500+ mph?
    As well known, for this you need a lot of aero mods and completely new cooling system.

    From what I understand a top level Merlin is doing 3400 rpm and around 140 inch MAP = ca. 3600 hp?
    No idea where the peak on larger (35.7 litres) DB 605 could be (as mentioned variant ASC, stock: 2800 rpm and around 60 inch MAP).

    Isn't Mike Nixon member of this board? Would be great to see little expertise from him

    Gibbs

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Pic of a a Messerschmitt 109 G-6 !

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbs View Post
    Hmm.... 500+ mph?
    As well known, for this you need a lot of aero mods and completely new cooling system.

    From what I understand a top level Merlin is doing 3400 rpm and around 140 inch MAP = ca. 3600 hp?
    No idea where the peak on larger (35.7 litres) DB 605 could be (as mentioned variant ASC, stock: 2800 rpm and around 60 inch MAP).

    Isn't Mike Nixon member of this board? Would be great to see little expertise from him

    Gibbs
    What is wrong with the present cooling system at high speeds ?

  4. Default Re: Pic of a a Messerschmitt 109 G-6 !

    Quote Originally Posted by Jukka View Post
    What is wrong with the present cooling system at high speeds ?
    Every super unlimited has needed a super modified cooling system. Dago-Strega-Voodoo, Bear, 232, Dreadnought

    The thing that hurts the 109 is no room for spray bar and ADI tanks.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Pic of a a Messerschmitt 109 G-6 !

    Quote Originally Posted by CubersWrist View Post
    Every super unlimited has needed a super modified cooling system. Dago-Strega-Voodoo, Bear, 232, Dreadnought

    The thing that hurts the 109 is no room for spray bar and ADI tanks.

    Have you studied that ?

    Two machine guns and one 30 mm cannon with ammos can be left out ?
    Last edited by Jukka; 07-04-2020 at 08:46 AM.

  6. Default Re: Pic of a a Messerschmitt 109 G-6 !

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Bf-109.JPG 
Views:	301 
Size:	491.8 KB 
ID:	24836There is some room but I'm not seeing much. The P-51 has a benefit of being built with fuel tanks in the wings and fuselage. The 109 was built for a different mission and simply doesn't have that.

    Using the numbers from this article as reference, there needs to be a lot of volume and while the gun bays get you something, it doesn't pass the eye test. I could do the math on volumes and stuff, but I'm too lazy.
    https://www.machinedesign.com/market...-C93aW5H1vPgy0

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Pic of a a Messerschmitt 109 G-6 !

    Quote Originally Posted by CubersWrist View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Bf-109.JPG 
Views:	301 
Size:	491.8 KB 
ID:	24836There is some room but I'm not seeing much. The P-51 has a benefit of being built with fuel tanks in the wings and fuselage. The 109 was built for a different mission and simply doesn't have that.

    Using the numbers from this article as reference, there needs to be a lot of volume and while the gun bays get you something, it doesn't pass the eye test. I could do the math on volumes and stuff, but I'm too lazy.
    https://www.machinedesign.com/market...-C93aW5H1vPgy0

    Here is the K-4...the bulges are smoothed out unlike in G-14 or G-6.

    https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic...f-109-k4-skin/

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Pic of a a Messerschmitt 109 G-6 !

    Well, when it cames to the fluids:

    https://i.imgur.com/eWbH9DB.jpg

    K model carries 400 litres fuel beneath pilot's seat and 85 litres "MW 50" (ADI) behind pilot, with stock motor (no spray bar) may be enough for 8 laps on the course.

    Quite possible, that the wings will give some additional room for fluids if modified and sealed (caulked with integral tank sealant) as example done on Bearcat "Conquest I", but no idea how much litres

    Gibbs

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Pic of a a Messerschmitt 109 G-6 !

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbs View Post
    a little correction:

    some german book/magazine articles are saying, that latest 109 K-4 model was able to do 453 mph @ 19700 ft
    (with MAP 1,98 ata, ADI and 100-octane fuel = ca. 2000 hp); weight wasn't very much higher than G-10 model, ca. 5300 lb empty (only because of fully closed gear doors and retractable tail wheel).

    DB 605 ASC engine surely has potential for further tuning, but at low altitude in above condition (no spraybar etc.) I think it could be a contender for stock P-51

    Gibbs

    Me-109 is bigger than the very fast He-100D was...so I think inside the bulges enough ADI fluids could be carried.

    I ponder another feature in Me-109 G..as it has very much dihedral...and wing is small and the slats don't open in high speed...it is prone to high speed stall...or G-stall as we know it.

    What kinda G-loads are we talking about in Reno at 500 mph speed ?

    Still the elevator in 109 gets real heavy beyond 750 km/h...so that it is allmost beyond man muscle power to pull the stick...possibly the elevator stab trim control inflight ought to be added ( big turn wheel ).
    Last edited by Jukka; 07-05-2020 at 03:55 AM.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Pic of a a Messerschmitt 109 G-6 !

    Quote Originally Posted by Jukka View Post
    ...
    What kinda G-loads are we talking about in Reno at 500 mph speed ? ...
    Not sure, but I think a 500-mph lap generates around 6 to 7 G

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