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Thread: World Speed Record

  1. #1
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    Default World Speed Record

    Throwing it out there. Could a highly prepared Griffon Powered "Spitfire"set the World Speed Record? I know money, money & more money.
    Lockheed Bob

  2. #2
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    Default Re: World Speed Record

    I think a highly modified Merlin powered Spit would have a good shot at the record. In all honesty, it seems to those in the warbird community sacrilegious to "cut up" a Spit. Can you imagine a Spit with Voodoo or Strega treatment?, Might give the Buick a good run for the money

    Jim

  3. #3
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    Default Re: World Speed Record

    Not being an expert in the field of aerodynamics, I'd say a Mk22 Spitfire would still struggle to break 500 mph simply because of the cooling system being hung from the underside of the wings, and being very draggy. Now, if there were a way to tuck them into the wings the way Stiletto was first done, they might have a shot. Overall the Mk22 is a clean design, but those coolers under the wings gotta go.

    Will

  4. #4
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    Default Re: World Speed Record

    How about streamlined V-tailed Messerschmitt 109 with Napier Sabre engine ( 5500 hp ) ??

  5. #5
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    Default Re: World Speed Record

    I think a 109 with a Saber would sit on its nose, and not have enough rudder. The Saber isn't a light engine. I'm also not sure you could house the Saber within the lines of a 109. Its a pretty wide engine.

    Will

  6. #6
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    Default Re: World Speed Record

    I reckon a Griffon Spitfire would have a good chance, but maybe the Mk XII would be the choice rather than the Mk 22. The XII was a amalgam of the smaller Merlin engined Mk V with clipped wings and a Griffon engine up front, designed for chasing down V1 flying s. While paper will say there were faster aircraft it managed to outrun the Typhoon and Fw190 during testing.

    As for if a Spitfire could reach high speeds; consider this - the wings had an aileron reversal speed of 580mph. When several Seafire XV's started pulling their wings off when rolling at high speed, a stiffer wing design was introduced with an aileron reversal speed of 825mph to put it well out of reach. The failures stopped happening and sevral pilots recount diving Seafires well beyond the Vne in the Pilots Notes when necessary.

    During wartime tests with the Royal Aircraft Establishment at Farnborough, Spitfires were dived to over 600mph. In 1952 Flt Lt Ted Powles entered a dive in a Spitfire and reached around 690mph on the way down. It remains unverified due to instrument issues with the aircraft, but the times and figures he recorded suggest he wasn't stretching the truth much.

    There's only a couple of issues. One is always going to be power, as all the really high Spitfire speeds were done in a dive, achieving it in level flight would likely be beyond what the engine and prop combination could deliver. Secondly, Spitfires are worth so much its unlikely anyone would want to modify one far enough to try.

    The idea won't go away though.
    Last edited by Rich W; 03-27-2019 at 01:38 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: World Speed Record

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich W View Post
    I reckon a Griffon Spitfire would have a good chance, but maybe the Mk XII would be the choice rather than the Mk 22. The XII was a amalgam of the smaller Merlin engined Mk V with clipped wings and a Griffon engine up front, designed for chasing down V1 flying s. While paper will say there were faster aircraft it managed to outrun the Typhoon and Fw190 during testing.

    As for if a Spitfire could reach high speeds; consider this - the wings had an aileron reversal speed of 580mph. When several Seafire XV's started pulling their wings off when rolling at high speed, a stiffer wing design was introduced with an aileron reversal speed of 825mph to put it well out of reach. The failures stopped happening and sevral pilots recount diving Seafires well beyond the Vne in the Pilots Notes when necessary.

    During wartime tests with the Royal Aircraft Establishment at Farnborough, Spitfires were dived to over 600mph. In 1952 Flt Lt Ted Powles entered a dive in a Spitfire and reached around 690mph on the way down. It remains unverified due to instument issues with the aircraft, but the times and figures he recorded suggest he wasn't stretching the truth much.

    There's only a couple of issues. One is always going to be power, as all the really high Spitfire speeds were done in a dive, achieving it in level flight would likely be beyond what the engine and prop combination could deliver. Secondly, Spitfires are worth so much its unlikely anyone would want to modify one far enough to try.

    The idea won't go away though.
    Mk XII is an awesome plane. Early Griffon and the clipped wings, it's a looker! I would also agree it would probably be a better choice over the later Griffons. Would take a lot of money to find the right engine/prop combo for a record.
    *My Air Race Site*

    Reno from '99 to '19

  8. #8
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    Default Re: World Speed Record

    Spitfire was excellent in many respect, but I agree that the basic concept of Mustang/Tsunami lineage is better.

    Miracle of Dunkirk; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AygSW1lWVOk

  9. #9

    Default Re: World Speed Record

    Quote Originally Posted by RAD2LTR View Post
    Not being an expert in the field of aerodynamics, I'd say a Mk22 Spitfire would still struggle to break 500 mph simply because of the cooling system being hung from the underside of the wings, and being very draggy. Now, if there were a way to tuck them into the wings the way Stiletto was first done, they might have a shot. Overall the Mk22 is a clean design, but those coolers under the wings gotta go.

    Will
    Boil off

    On a more serious note though, I do think boil off is a better bang for your buck on something like a spitfire or a P-40 versus a P-51 which already has a better radiator design.
    "young" Thomas

  10. #10
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    Default Re: World Speed Record

    Doesn't the high speed increase friction heat near M1 ?

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