Throwing it out there. Could a highly prepared Griffon Powered "Spitfire"set the World Speed Record? I know money, money & more money.
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Re: World Speed Record
I think a highly modified Merlin powered Spit would have a good shot at the record. In all honesty, it seems to those in the warbird community sacrilegious to "cut up" a Spit. Can you imagine a Spit with Voodoo or Strega treatment?, Might give the Buick a good run for the money
Jim
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Re: World Speed Record
Not being an expert in the field of aerodynamics, I'd say a Mk22 Spitfire would still struggle to break 500 mph simply because of the cooling system being hung from the underside of the wings, and being very draggy. Now, if there were a way to tuck them into the wings the way Stiletto was first done, they might have a shot. Overall the Mk22 is a clean design, but those coolers under the wings gotta go.
Will
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Re: World Speed Record
I reckon a Griffon Spitfire would have a good chance, but maybe the Mk XII would be the choice rather than the Mk 22. The XII was a amalgam of the smaller Merlin engined Mk V with clipped wings and a Griffon engine up front, designed for chasing down V1 flying bombs. While paper will say there were faster aircraft it managed to outrun the Typhoon and Fw190 during testing.
As for if a Spitfire could reach high speeds; consider this - the wings had an aileron reversal speed of 580mph. When several Seafire XV's started pulling their wings off when rolling at high speed, a stiffer wing design was introduced with an aileron reversal speed of 825mph to put it well out of reach. The failures stopped happening and sevral pilots recount diving Seafires well beyond the Vne in the Pilots Notes when necessary.
During wartime tests with the Royal Aircraft Establishment at Farnborough, Spitfires were dived to over 600mph. In 1952 Flt Lt Ted Powles entered a dive in a Spitfire and reached around 690mph on the way down. It remains unverified due to instrument issues with the aircraft, but the times and figures he recorded suggest he wasn't stretching the truth much.
There's only a couple of issues. One is always going to be power, as all the really high Spitfire speeds were done in a dive, achieving it in level flight would likely be beyond what the engine and prop combination could deliver. Secondly, Spitfires are worth so much its unlikely anyone would want to modify one far enough to try.
The idea won't go away though.Last edited by Rich W; 03-27-2019, 01:38 PM.
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Re: World Speed Record
Originally posted by Rich W View PostI reckon a Griffon Spitfire would have a good chance, but maybe the Mk XII would be the choice rather than the Mk 22. The XII was a amalgam of the smaller Merlin engined Mk V with clipped wings and a Griffon engine up front, designed for chasing down V1 flying bombs. While paper will say there were faster aircraft it managed to outrun the Typhoon and Fw190 during testing.
As for if a Spitfire could reach high speeds; consider this - the wings had an aileron reversal speed of 580mph. When several Seafire XV's started pulling their wings off when rolling at high speed, a stiffer wing design was introduced with an aileron reversal speed of 825mph to put it well out of reach. The failures stopped happening and sevral pilots recount diving Seafires well beyond the Vne in the Pilots Notes when necessary.
During wartime tests with the Royal Aircraft Establishment at Farnborough, Spitfires were dived to over 600mph. In 1952 Flt Lt Ted Powles entered a dive in a Spitfire and reached around 690mph on the way down. It remains unverified due to instument issues with the aircraft, but the times and figures he recorded suggest he wasn't stretching the truth much.
There's only a couple of issues. One is always going to be power, as all the really high Spitfire speeds were done in a dive, achieving it in level flight would likely be beyond what the engine and prop combination could deliver. Secondly, Spitfires are worth so much its unlikely anyone would want to modify one far enough to try.
The idea won't go away though.Reno from '99 to '22
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Re: World Speed Record
Spitfire was excellent in many respect, but I agree that the basic concept of Mustang/Tsunami lineage is better.
Miracle of Dunkirk; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AygSW1lWVOk
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Re: World Speed Record
Originally posted by RAD2LTR View PostNot being an expert in the field of aerodynamics, I'd say a Mk22 Spitfire would still struggle to break 500 mph simply because of the cooling system being hung from the underside of the wings, and being very draggy. Now, if there were a way to tuck them into the wings the way Stiletto was first done, they might have a shot. Overall the Mk22 is a clean design, but those coolers under the wings gotta go.
Will
On a more serious note though, I do think boil off is a better bang for your buck on something like a spitfire or a P-40 versus a P-51 which already has a better radiator design.
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Re: World Speed Record
Originally posted by CubersWrist View PostBoil off
On a more serious note though, I do think boil off is a better bang for your buck on something like a spitfire or a P-40 versus a P-51 which already has a better radiator design.
I've done a what if model of a Spitfire running a boil off and man does it look clean. I bet you could house one in a P-40, but I'm not sure there is enough room in a Spitfire.
Will
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Re: World Speed Record
Boil off (or evaporative cooling if you prefer...) was designed in as the front of the wing ahead of the spar was intended for use as a steam tank. It was only embodied in the very first 'high speed' Spitfire, but the legacy carried over to production and proved useful; as some PR Spitfires later used it to carry fuel as a wet wing, 57 gal capacity each side. There's also a modification that was trialled for a 43 gallon tank behind the pilot seat.
If you're not carrying the guns and ammunition, there's room to play with!Last edited by Rich W; 03-29-2019, 01:03 PM.
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