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Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

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  • #31
    Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

    All true, Mike. All true. It's not just the walkdown/demo. It is also true that no single act is the long pole in the tent. As you know very well at a typical "air show", Blues and Birds are the headliner/last act. Not so much at Reno (and one of my other shows, Seafair, is the same situation...Blues perform remotely in the middle of the day).

    As a famous man once said, "There's only so much **** you can cram in a 10lb bag."
    Owen Ashurst
    Performer Air Boss - Reno Air Races
    http://airbossone.com/

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

      An interesting topic of discussion. Thanks Air Judge for bringing it up.

      Before jumping right into an answer, because I do have some immediate thoughts, I decided to read what others had posted in response.

      GRNDP51 notes that the overhead entrance is awesome. No doubt about that! And GNDP51 goes on to state that he likes to hear the races—as do I and many others—and the Thunderbirds startup would drown them out. I couldn’t agree more, as this is often the case with other annoying airshow acts that serve no more than to induce myriad headaches among the spectators and prolong the racing further into the day, thus unfortunately allowing the wind to pick up as we know it invariably does year after year.

      Race5 makes a good point stating “the ground show eats up too much time, especially since the ‘Birds’ tend to push the schedule.” Ha! Let me tell you! I’ve been to Reno 32 years in a row. I’ve seen all the great acts, and I have developed my pet peeves over the years, mind you. I used to get annoyed with how little show center time the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels actually provided, while in the meantime we were subjected to annoyingly pretentious, non-stop jabbering from the team’s announcer. One year I took a stopwatch and actually timed the Thunderbirds for show center time. This was a full-show with the robotic startup formalities. I clocked 19 minutes of show center time for a program that exceeded, if I remember correctly, over 90 minutes. Yikes!

      Fence Sence gives an endorsement for offsite and prefers not to have another 30 minutes added to the forever show. Good call!

      And Russ Craig certainly echoes my sentiments when he says “there is already enough jet-noise pollution interfering with the sweet music of the Wright's, P&W's and Merlin's.” I couldn’t agree more. It is the warbirds and their awesome sounding engines that brought me to Reno oh so many years ago. It is what has kept me coming back because there is no other better sound in all of motor sports racing. None! So, enough with the pollution that drowns out the sound of the warbirds, please.
      Now, Desertdawg likes the Fat Albert JATO takeoff. Absolutely! When the ‘Blues’ come back, hopefully we can get the Fat Albert takeoff again.

      GRNDP51 espouses the advertising benefits of having the ‘T-Birds’ at RNO. True, but doubtful many people flying in for other than Reno will change their plans in order to make it out to Stead. I am always surprised to meet people on my flight that are traveling to Reno for something other than the air races.

      I don’t know what the final tally is, but just give me my beloved Unlimiteds. Support them so that they can continue to give us what they used to give us, and throw in some more military demos and flybys. The Sport Class has made good inroads and will continue to do so. Bring back the T-28 Class and consider a Turboprop Class which I have seen much posted interest in. Hold the Unlimiteds in the highest esteem. Do not talk or play annoying music over them. Keep it the National Championship Air Races, not the National Championship Air Races and Protracted Thunderbirds Air Show.

      John

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

        Good words John, I’m assuming the Unlimited tally should already be more than last year and I’m hoping that this topic was brought up because of a bronze race in 2019. My ‘confirmed’ list for next year is one shy of the 15 from 2018, and that’s minus the rumored 4-6 and some that we probably won’t even know until summer. I’m hoping 20 bare minimum and really hoping for someone to race Strega up front to keep gold interesting....
        Reno from '99 to '22

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

          I always liked it better when the Snowbirds would operate out of the Reno ANG base than the later times when they were at Stead.
          remember the Oogahonk!

          old school enthusiast of Civiltary Warbirds and Air Racers

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

            I am guessing the ground show is probably a cool thing for the public that comes to see them fly, it IS part of the show.
            Personally, I have never liked any of the big draw acts parked out there. I am a ramp-sitter in my chair part of the time and they are just plain in the way!
            But that is my opinion and worth as much as it sounds.
            Leo Smiley - Graphics and Fine Arts
            airplanenutleo@gmail.com
            thetreasuredpeacock.etsy.com

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

              Leo, John, et al...good feedback folks. It's pretty much as I suspected. Most everyone feels the ground show is cool but the trade-off isn't worth the loss of more racing. My gut tells me most folks who attend Reno (and as is obvious in this thread) tolerate the major acts because they understand it does help fill up the coffers and put butts in seats.

              As large as the ramp may be, between the entire pit area, box seating, NAHI, military and Jet class parking (not to mention the occassional BLM operation), that area gets gobbled rather quickly and completely. Add to that the time element and the options start getting very limited.

              Time will tell how this all plays out. I'm off to Las Vegas for the ICAS convention and will be meeting with several key players. Shaping up to be a great week.

              Certainly appreciate all the anecdotal feedback. Good group...good thoughts. No surprise there!
              Owen Ashurst
              Performer Air Boss - Reno Air Races
              http://airbossone.com/

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

                An important thing to remember is that RENO depends on success yearly on local attendance.. there simply are not enough of pure air race fans out there to support the event. For sure, if local attendance is down, then RENO will not do as well as when it's up. The idea of beating the bushes with flyovers would be extremely good for the bottom line I'd think. Especially if coupled with some exciting local adverts..

                As for getting more people to be RACE fans rather than air SHOW fans... that's always been the hard, yet unsolved part.. Internet has helped, if we still had Wide World Of Sports coverage annually that would help HUGELY... NBC is doing a good job with the coverage they have but have not marketed nationwide/primetime slots on TV.

                I'd say best solution is off site with FAA approved fly overs ALL WEEK LONG over Reno proper to garner local support..
                Wayne Sagar
                "Pusher of Electrons"

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

                  The Blues fly out of RNO because it"s much cheaper to do so.They don"t need to drive fuel trucks,maintenance stands,oxygen carts,nitrogen carts,power units,and all the equipment that goes with maintaining and launching a six ship team.Then there is the thing in case the need for the spare a/c.They can get fuel much cheaper from ANGRNO than from ACL.Then there is hangar space if they need that.Hangar space at Stead is at a premium,especially during race week.

                  As far as them getting butts in the seats,yes that follows up with more money but I don't think RARA passes that down to the racers in the form of purse money.

                  Now the flyovers of the city/area.Who do you think is going to pay for that?Not RARA.In the good old days yes.I remember when money was loose, some of the RARA board of directors would come up to whatever type fuel truck they needed fuel from and tell the operator to put the next top off on RARA so that Lefty P-38,Hinton Spam Can,B-25,B-29,and many other ac owners could give that particular board members big tittied girlfriend or his neighbor a ride in some warbird on RARA.

                  Getting off subject here.Bottom line is,Blues from KRNO,much cheaper for the team and the taxpayer.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

                    Originally posted by Air Judge View Post
                    Leo, John, et al...good feedback folks. It's pretty much as I suspected. Most everyone feels the ground show is cool but the trade-off isn't worth the loss of more racing. My gut tells me most folks who attend Reno (and as is obvious in this thread) tolerate the major acts because they understand it does help fill up the coffers and put butts in seats.

                    As large as the ramp may be, between the entire pit area, box seating, NAHI, military and Jet class parking (not to mention the occassional BLM operation), that area gets gobbled rather quickly and completely. Add to that the time element and the options start getting very limited.

                    Time will tell how this all plays out. I'm off to Las Vegas for the ICAS convention and will be meeting with several key players. Shaping up to be a great week.

                    Certainly appreciate all the anecdotal feedback. Good group...good thoughts. No surprise there!
                    Am I the only one here that for once appreciates that someone that works closely with RARA is listening to fans? Now I don’t know how much pull Owen has, but this is something unlike anything else. I’m in “loose” contact with Tony L. about ideas to bring to Reno, but I like this more. Owen I already reached out to Thom Richard about it and he’s seeing what he can do, but if the class of 45 are at ICAS, they should perform and race next year.... just saying *off topic* hope ICAS goes well, looking forward to hearing news for 2019 shows, Reno included!
                    Reno from '99 to '22

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

                      Originally posted by krts View Post
                      tell the operator to put the next top off on RARA so that Lefty P-38,Hinton Spam Can,B-25,B-29,and many other ac owners could give that particular board members big tittied girlfriend or his neighbor a ride in some warbird on RARA.
                      .
                      Ah yes the "BTG" thank you RARA

                      We need more of that

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

                        Originally posted by GRNDP51 View Post
                        Am I the only one here that for once appreciates that someone that works closely with RARA is listening to fans? Now I don’t know how much pull Owen has, but this is something unlike anything else. I’m in “loose” contact with Tony L. about ideas to bring to Reno, but I like this more. Owen I already reached out to Thom Richard about it and he’s seeing what he can do, but if the class of 45 are at ICAS, they should perform and race next year.... just saying *off topic* hope ICAS goes well, looking forward to hearing news for 2019 shows, Reno included!
                        Your not the only one young man, we all appreciate Owen's contribution here.

                        I'll hoist couple in gratitude at beer thirty today.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

                          Jumping in late, but here are my thoughts:

                          Like just about everyone else here, I am there for the races. I like to see one of the big acts, but once is plenty for the week. The remaining days, I use their show time as the time that I walk around, get food, etc.

                          That said, as I sat in the stands this last year, I was thinking that I had plenty of elbow room. I sit in the reserved seats right behind the announcers on the start/finish line. On most years, Saturday starts to get crowded, and Sunday is packed. I was trying to figure out why there was so much empty space in the stands, especially on Sunday afternoon. Then it occurred to me that neither of the big military teams was there. I have to wonder how many extra people are brought in by the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds. I suspect that it is quite a lot, and I suspect that it's mostly the local folks that we would love to see involved.

                          For 2019, I'm with everyone else that having them based remote is for the best.

                          I have a completely wacky idea for future years, though. Why not make the races Saturday through Tuesday? Make Saturday and Sunday the days with the biggest airshow acts that we can get. Pack the stands with people there for a world class airshow, and the early heats of racing mixed in. Make Monday and Tuesday all about racing.

                          Those of us that schedule all of September around the races don't care if the money races are on Tuesday. We're pretty much there for a week anyway.

                          I know that it's a dumb idea, but I had to say it anyway...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

                            Actually changing the schedule like that is a very interesting idea. My knee jerk reaction was “that’s crazy” but as I thought about it I see how it could have advantages.
                            "young" Thomas

                            http://teamonemoment.com/

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

                              Originally posted by wadeh View Post
                              Jumping in late, but here are my thoughts:

                              Like just about everyone else here, I am there for the races. I like to see one of the big acts, but once is plenty for the week. The remaining days, I use their show time as the time that I walk around, get food, etc.

                              That said, as I sat in the stands this last year, I was thinking that I had plenty of elbow room. I sit in the reserved seats right behind the announcers on the start/finish line. On most years, Saturday starts to get crowded, and Sunday is packed. I was trying to figure out why there was so much empty space in the stands, especially on Sunday afternoon. Then it occurred to me that neither of the big military teams was there. I have to wonder how many extra people are brought in by the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds. I suspect that it is quite a lot, and I suspect that it's mostly the local folks that we would love to see involved.

                              For 2019, I'm with everyone else that having them based remote is for the best.

                              I have a completely wacky idea for future years, though. Why not make the races Saturday through Tuesday? Make Saturday and Sunday the days with the biggest airshow acts that we can get. Pack the stands with people there for a world class airshow, and the early heats of racing mixed in. Make Monday and Tuesday all about racing.

                              Those of us that schedule all of September around the races don't care if the money races are on Tuesday. We're pretty much there for a week anyway.

                              I know that it's a dumb idea, but I had to say it anyway...
                              Even if you took the airshow acts out of the schedule on Mon / Tuesday, that's not nearly enough time to have practice, qauls, and all race heats for all the classes.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Airshow Stuff: An Informal Survey of AAFO'ers

                                Originally posted by Air Judge View Post
                                Hey all,
                                Question regarding the air show side of things at Reno. As you all are likely aware the USAF Thunderbirds are scheduled to appear in 2019...
                                Plenty of good comments here already. The thing I want to know is why the formation acts don't over-fly Reno (via Virginia Street) any longer? I remember when the Snowbirds made a habit of it and so the locals knew that they were in town. I've suggested that this practice return, but it seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

                                I sure would love to see the Snowbirds again. And aren't the RAF Red Arrows about to make a U.S. tour?

                                Comment

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