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  • #46
    Re: Voodoo Speed Record

    Sometimes I laugh to myself and think that this will actually turn out to be someone like Pete Law hiding behind a pseudonym, just stirring up the pot for fun....that he'll reveal himself like Alan Funt on some episode of Candid Camera. I would feel much better for having been punked. Because right now, it just feels like the kid who keeps acting out over and over again just to get attention.

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    • #47
      Re: Voodoo Speed Record

      Originally posted by Big_Jim View Post
      Sometimes I laugh to myself and think that this will actually turn out to be someone like Pete Law hiding behind a pseudonym, just stirring up the pot for fun....that he'll reveal himself like Alan Funt on some episode of Candid Camera. I would feel much better for having been punked. Because right now, it just feels like the kid who keeps acting out over and over again just to get attention.
      You guys completely ignore the facts, then you make it out like I'm the one who's out in left field...

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Voodoo Speed Record

        Originally posted by Desertdawg View Post
        Well ya, your going to that this anywhere.

        But, this is one awesome place. There is enough interest here and a unique environment to grow this site..

        It's simple folk, Wayne needs some help here!
        Yes, this site is a good one to be sure. Just from time to time it gets a bit personal and leans towards eating our own young.

        But...I'm still here and enjoy learning from the experiences and KSA's of those who are willing to share.

        On another note...Wayne, wasn't there a "Donate" button floating around? Did I overlook it? Happy to drop some $$$ in the coffers and challenge others here to match. Any takers?
        Owen Ashurst
        Performer Air Boss - Reno Air Races
        http://airbossone.com/

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Voodoo Speed Record

          Originally posted by Air Judge View Post
          Yes, this site is a good one to be sure. Just from time to time it gets a bit personal and leans towards eating our own young.

          But...I'm still here and enjoy learning from the experiences and KSA's of those who are willing to share.

          On another note...Wayne, wasn't there a "Donate" button floating around? Did I overlook it? Happy to drop some $$$ in the coffers and challenge others here to match. Any takers?
          You can count me in.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Voodoo Speed Record

            Originally posted by grampi View Post
            You guys completely ignore the facts, then you make it out like I'm the one who's out in left field...
            Source of said facts:

            Click image for larger version

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            Last edited by flyingjibus; 06-14-2018, 11:56 AM.

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            • #51
              Re: Voodoo Speed Record

              Originally posted by flyingjibus View Post
              Source of said facts:

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]23260[/ATTACH]

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                Originally posted by flyingjibus View Post
                Source of said facts:

                [ATTACH=CONFIG]23260[/ATTACH]
                That's funny!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                  Originally posted by Air Judge View Post
                  On another note...Wayne, wasn't there a "Donate" button floating around? Did I overlook it? Happy to drop some $$$ in the coffers and challenge others here to match. Any takers?
                  It's on the home page towards the bottom on the right.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                    So, points have been brought up that I have questions about....and am surely going to show off my naivete on some of these matters:
                    First, IMO a "diving" start to a speed run gives a distinct advantage to someone who enters a speed run on the straight and level. Sort of like a drag race where a car is stationary and another car moving. As soon as the moving car gets even with the one standing still, the one standing still takes off.
                    I have read about the 499MPH lap record vs. the 507MPH lap record (if I got that straight) where, if I understand the posts, the 499MPH was actually faster. I don't quite get this. You are measuring a plane going a set distance. At the end of that distance you take the time it took to travel that distance to figure out the speed. I don't understand why a change in course would alter that, since you are still going the same distance. If you really want to get picky, if you pick a midline between the pylon and where you would be off the course and try to fly at the exact midline, then you will have a certain distance. If you go a few yards closer to the pylon then you are actually shortening the distance, and a few yards the other way and you are lengthening the distance. I won't even start with the effect change in altitude can have.
                    Lastly, if I understand correctly, the piston engine speed record has been officially retired, so therefore the record can never be officially broken. You CAN go faster than the record speed, but despite how much faster you go, it won't count as the official record.
                    Not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to understand a little better what all the fuss is about.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                      Originally posted by flyingjibus View Post
                      To go from 485 to 500 needs the all of the above and then the stars to align for you.
                      Not to mention the flux capacitor!
                      Wayne Sagar
                      "Pusher of Electrons"

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                        Originally posted by rchevyman View Post
                        It's on the home page towards the bottom on the right.
                        I'm trying to get this sorted out.. I think what happened is when I took my computer swimming last year and lost all and I mean ALL my data, I lost the original files to make it happen again.. Got to load some software and get'er'done again!


                        Good news is, I made it to PRS, got to speak to new CEO and things look better than ever for the future.. going to be a long road, lots of support from US (fans) and many others (sponsors/partners) but I think current staff is going to be best thing that happened to the sport in many years!!!!!!
                        Wayne Sagar
                        "Pusher of Electrons"

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                          Originally posted by AAFO_WSagar View Post
                          I'm trying to get this sorted out.. I think what happened is when I took my computer swimming last year and lost all and I mean ALL my data, I lost the original files to make it happen again.. Got to load some software and get'er'done again!


                          Good news is, I made it to PRS, got to speak to new CEO and things look better than ever for the future.. going to be a long road, lots of support from US (fans) and many others (sponsors/partners) but I think current staff is going to be best thing that happened to the sport in many years!!!!!!
                          glad you made it to PRS Wayne, September look promising?
                          Reno from '99 to '22

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                            Originally posted by Rigby View Post
                            So, points have been brought up that I have questions about....and am surely going to show off my naivete on some of these matters:
                            First, IMO a "diving" start to a speed run gives a distinct advantage to someone who enters a speed run on the straight and level. Sort of like a drag race where a car is stationary and another car moving. As soon as the moving car gets even with the one standing still, the one standing still takes off.
                            I have read about the 499MPH lap record vs. the 507MPH lap record (if I got that straight) where, if I understand the posts, the 499MPH was actually faster. I don't quite get this. You are measuring a plane going a set distance. At the end of that distance you take the time it took to travel that distance to figure out the speed. I don't understand why a change in course would alter that, since you are still going the same distance. If you really want to get picky, if you pick a midline between the pylon and where you would be off the course and try to fly at the exact midline, then you will have a certain distance. If you go a few yards closer to the pylon then you are actually shortening the distance, and a few yards the other way and you are lengthening the distance. I won't even start with the effect change in altitude can have.
                            Lastly, if I understand correctly, the piston engine speed record has been officially retired, so therefore the record can never be officially broken. You CAN go faster than the record speed, but despite how much faster you go, it won't count as the official record.
                            Not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to understand a little better what all the fuss is about.

                            For the lap speeds, you have the old equation distance = rate x time. The race course was changed from pylon to pylon to the "ideal path". This increased course distance. Time was relatively the same though. Do the algebra a larger distance divided by the same amount of time yields a faster lap speed.

                            So it's using math to fudge the results to make the airplanes look faster
                            "young" Thomas

                            http://teamonemoment.com/

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                              Originally posted by Rigby View Post
                              So, points have been brought up that I have questions about....and am surely going to show off my naivete on some of these matters:
                              First, IMO a "diving" start to a speed run gives a distinct advantage to someone who enters a speed run on the straight and level. Sort of like a drag race where a car is stationary and another car moving. As soon as the moving car gets even with the one standing still, the one standing still takes off.
                              Yes, but rules are rules. If you are not breaking the rules, then no one can get too upset. However, it is a little unfair when rules change. The current 3 km rules are that the aircraft needs to enter a 1,000 m approach before the 3 km course. Once on the course, the aircraft cannot drop more than 100 m. Also, at no time after entering the approach for the first run can the aircraft exceed 500 m AGL above the averaged height of the start and finish points, until the last run is made. There is no mention of not being able to dive from 5,800 ft AGL to the approach for the first run. A little cheeky, but any current record setter can do it I suppose.

                              Originally posted by Rigby View Post
                              I have read about the 499MPH lap record vs. the 507MPH lap record (if I got that straight) where, if I understand the posts, the 499MPH was actually faster. I don't quite get this. You are measuring a plane going a set distance. At the end of that distance you take the time it took to travel that distance to figure out the speed. I don't understand why a change in course would alter that, since you are still going the same distance. If you really want to get picky, if you pick a midline between the pylon and where you would be off the course and try to fly at the exact midline, then you will have a certain distance. If you go a few yards closer to the pylon then you are actually shortening the distance, and a few yards the other way and you are lengthening the distance. I won't even start with the effect change in altitude can have.
                              Let’s ignore that the course changed between the 499 mph run and the 507 mph run. The issue here is that you had a course that measured Y (pylon-to-pylon measurement). Then, someone decided that the course should be measured as Y + 2% (not the exact amount, but basically pylon-to-pylon plus an extra amount to compensate for the aircraft not actually traveling a straight line from one pylon to the next). The course itself did not really change. If you ran 60 seconds over the Y distance, and 60 seconds over the Y + 2% distance, your calculated speed went up by 2% even though the time did not change.

                              499 + 2% = 509
                              507 – 2% = 497

                              Now, admitting that the course did actually change between when those speeds were recorded, you can see that there could be contention over exactly which was truly the fastest lap. If the way the course was measurement was kept constant (even if it does not truly represent the path the aircraft takes), you have a more fair comparison.

                              Originally posted by Rigby View Post
                              Lastly, if I understand correctly, the piston engine speed record has been officially retired, so therefore the record can never be officially broken. You CAN go faster than the record speed, but despite how much faster you go, it won't count as the official record.
                              Not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to understand a little better what all the fuss is about.
                              Back in the day, you had just a speed record. Then, jets ruined everything (just kidding). Different classes were created for different types of aircraft and subclasses for weight brackets. This format enables a guy in an F1 to set a speed record in his weight class even though he is much slower than the SR-71. The fastest records were an “absolute” record, but that was a little redundant. If the F1 can top 3,000 mph, who really cares that it was in a different weight class (and power class) than the SR-71.

                              Rare Bear holds the 3 km absolute (any weight class) speed record for a piston-powered aircraft. The record was retired, and new records focusing on weight subclasses were established. Voodoo holds the 3 km speed record for class C-1e (C = aircraft, 1 = piston-powered, e = 3,000–5,999 kg). Rare Bear would be in the same class if it were to attempt a new record. Although Rare Bear’s record is retired, we all know what it is and use it (rightly so) as the benchmark for the fastest piston-powered aircraft.
                              Bill Pearce

                              Old Machine Press
                              Blue Thunder Air Racing (in memoriam)

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                                Originally posted by grampi View Post
                                What exactly was easier about Voodoo's attempt as compared to RB's attempt?
                                To explain what I was getting at, Grampi, the new GPS timing equipment (some of which is carried on-board, I believe) seems to be much easier than when Lyle Shelton had to fly through camera traps that were on the ground (a tighter space to fly in), and I could be wrong, but I think the course was specifically about 1/3 as wide as now.

                                As far as diving down on the first pass, I don't know if Lyle had that option or not, John Slack indicated he didn't do it because it would be harder to hit the entry to the course. He did not do it, for whatever reason. Not saying it is cheating or anything like that, if you can do it, do it!

                                Voodoo's pass averages slow considerably after the first one, so one would think that dive had a lot to do with the first passes speed.

                                Matt Jackson found out what might happen doing that when Strega became the fastest open-cockpit Reno Racer!

                                Also, have to be very careful not to get into a PIO diving in, I hear Lyle almost got bit by that at least once.

                                What Stevo and crew did was amazing, especially watching the video of them changing out that cylinder bank is cool.

                                He milked that last pass out of a sick engine. His Dad tried that once in another P-51, didn't end up quite as well.

                                I don't see anyone capable of challenging the current record. Not for now, anyhow.
                                Last edited by toldjaso; 06-14-2018, 07:52 PM.

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