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Voodoo Speed Record

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  • #16
    Re: Voodoo Speed Record

    Originally posted by RAD2LTR View Post
    That may be so, but it wasn't the required percentage above 528 for it to be official. (Yes Rare Bear's record was "retired" but in order to beat a record, the speed must be a percentage faster. I think its 1% faster. If I'm not mistaken they needed 534 mph for the record to be beaten.) They set the current record at 531, but apparently it was just under the required amount to break the record according to the rules.
    Will
    Somebody correct me, but you can't actually beat a 'retired' record so the having to go 1% faster argument doesn't stand up. Voodoo set a new class record all its own, the speed of which is faster than the one set by Rare Bear. Even if Voodoo went significantly faster, it wouldn't offically break the old record. But it would be (and currently is) faster.
    Last edited by Rich W; 06-11-2018, 01:50 PM.

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    • #17
      Re: Voodoo Speed Record

      Originally posted by Rich W View Post
      Somebody correct me, but you can't actually beat a 'retired' record so the having to go 1% faster argument doesn't stand up. Voodoo set a new class record all its own, the speed of which is faster than the one set by Rare Bear. Even if Voodoo went significantly faster, it wouldn't offically break the old record. But it would be (and curently is) faster.
      I had the same thought but didn't know how to word it till now.
      You have two separate records. They both go in the record book. But Voodoo's record is faster (and I believe in a separate weight category?).

      I don't think Rare Bear can both have its record retired and be the fastest airplane ever. That sounds like wanting to have your cake and eat it too.
      "young" Thomas

      http://teamonemoment.com/

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      • #18
        Re: Voodoo Speed Record

        For all the nit pickers. Lets say Voodoo attempts the record again. To do that, they must beat their current record by 1%. That would be at least 536.XX mph. Let's say they "only" achieve 535.XX. Not enough to officially up the record, but faster than the 533.XX needed to be 1% faster than the retired Rare Bear record. Are you going to say they are now faster than the Bear even though it isn't an official record? To me a record is only a record if it is official per the FAI. Voodoo has that record now. Period. And that record is faster than the officially retired number set by Rare Bear.

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        • #19
          Re: Voodoo Speed Record

          Steve-o flying Voodoo broke a record held by Will Whiteside, set in his Yak, Steadfast.


          This is not hard to understand.

          The success was bittersweet, however, as the ultimate goal was to break the speed record over a 3 km closed course set in 1989 by Lyle Shelton in Rare Bear — a Grumman F8F-2 Bearcat. The FAI retired Shelton’s record after the organization made changes in the sporting code. While Hinton’s speed was slightly quicker than Shelton’s, had the rules not changed the record would have to beat by 1 percent, translating to 533 mph.
          Steven Hinton, the exceptional pilot who has won the Unlimited Class in the National Championship Air Races in Reno, Nevada, multiple times, added his name to the record books this weekend as he broke the speed record for an internal combustion engine-powered airplane, Class C-1e, on a 3 km closed course. Hinton was flying a … Continued

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          • #20
            Re: Voodoo Speed Record

            It got easier. They did it with the easier requirements, and went slightly faster. Had the requirements been as hard as they were before, the attempt would not have counted for anything, and they likely would not have gone as fast.

            Voodoo is faster than steadfast though. That we can see.


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            • #21
              Re: Voodoo Speed Record

              It's alsofaster than the Bear, on HALF the motor.

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              • #22
                Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                Originally posted by 1:1 Scale View Post
                It's alsofaster than the Bear, on HALF the motor.
                To be correct Voodoo has .4922% of the cubic inch displacement of Rare Bear. Voodoo also runs her one and done engine package at 212.5% of the boost. Yes Rare Bear used a 300 horsepower dose of nitrous oxide continuosly to set the 3 KM record. Lyle started his record attempt without screaming out of the stratosphere, quite frankly because in the pre-GPS era it was hard to find the 3 KM course. Then we changed the oil and the spark plugs and flew all the way from Las Vegas, New Mexico to Van Nuts, California. Then we checked the valve lash, flew to Reno, Nevada then we won Reno. Then we flew the plane from Reno, Nevada back to Van Nuys, California did a typical years maintenance which included change 2 or three cylinders, plug changes, exhaust pipe inspection, valve lashing, fly back to Reno on the same engine and won Reno again. You'll never do that with a Merlin. You'll also never do that with Rare Bear again either. The group of people who made that happen with the knowledge required to make that happen are no longer working on the airplane and quite frankly under the current ownership never will again. I have respectfully responded to your post. I do so because my Dad no longer can, nor actually would he likely as he prefered in his lifetime to respond with his airplane. It would be quite a nice day to see a youthful Lyle Shelton, Tiger Destefani, Skip Holm in "butter knife" and Stevo Hinton race, however time equalizes everything.
                John
                Last edited by BellCobraIV; 06-12-2018, 05:13 AM.
                John Slack

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                • #23
                  Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                  Originally posted by BellCobraIV View Post
                  To be correct Voodoo has .4922% of the cubic inch displacement of Rare Bear. Voodoo also runs her one and done engine package at 212.5% of the boost. Yes Rare Bear used a 300 horsepower dose of nitrous oxide continuosly to set the 3 KM record. Then we changed the oil and the spark plugs and flew all the way from Las Vegas, New Mexico to Van Nuts, California. Then we checked the valve lash, flew to Reno, Nevada then we won Reno. Then we flew the plane from Reno, Nevada back to Van Nuys, California did a typical years maintenance which included change 2 or three cylinders, plug changes, exhaust pipe inspection, valve lashing, fly back to Reno on the same engine and won Reno again. You'll never do that with a Merlin. You'll also never do that with Rare Bear again either. The group of people who made that happen with the knowledge required to make that happen are no longer working on the airplane and quite frankly under the current ownership never will again.
                  John
                  There's no question the Merlin has to work A LOT harder than the big radials, and that usually means attempts like this trash the motor. That makes them no less impressive. To get these kinds of speeds and this much power from an engine this size, and one that was designed in the 1940s, is way beyond amazing...

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                  • #24
                    Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                    Originally posted by flyingjibus View Post
                    It got easier. They did it with the easier requirements, and went slightly faster. Had the requirements been as hard as they were before, the attempt would not have counted for anything, and they likely would not have gone as fast.

                    Voodoo is faster than steadfast though. That we can see.


                    What exactly was easier about Voodoo's attempt as compared to RB's attempt?

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                    • #25
                      Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                      Originally posted by grampi View Post
                      What exactly was easier about Voodoo's attempt as compared to RB's attempt?
                      Well, someone who was actually there just explained it for you in the post above yours.


                      "SCREAMING OUT OF THE STRATOSPHERE"

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                      • #26
                        Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                        Originally posted by flyingjibus View Post
                        Well, someone who was actually there just explained it for you in the post above yours.


                        "SCREAMING OUT OF THE STRATOSPHERE"
                        This was done on all 4 passes?

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                        • #27
                          Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                          Originally posted by grampi View Post
                          This was done on all 4 passes?
                          No, but does that matter ? Math matters.

                          750
                          505
                          505
                          505
                          =average of 566

                          505
                          505
                          505
                          505
                          = average of 505

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                          • #28
                            Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                            This never gets old for you?

                            Look man, no one is disagreeing with you when you say that the super stangs are fast. They are the fastest game in town right now, by a lot.

                            But you seem to always push this narrative that there is no reason they couldnt just drop what they were doing, pop up in the air for a minute and beat the old record, or push the throttle to 11 on race day and turn 600mph laps with their eyes closed.

                            Voodoo, now appears to be very close to the speeds the Bear was capable of in its prime, probably even a tiny bit faster, Same for Strega. All three of those planes are very evenly matched when healthy and performing.

                            To make an airplanes top speed go from 300 to 400 mph can be done with some airframe mods, and a hot motor.

                            To make an airplanes top speed go from 400 to 450 mph takes some **** hot air frame mods, and a wizard engine builder.

                            To go from 450 to 475 needs all of the above, then some, and then some luck.

                            To go from 485 to 500 needs the all of the above and then the stars to align for you.

                            every mph over 500 is year of work, and cubic dollars.


                            Strega=fast as hell
                            Voodoo=fast as hell
                            Bear=fast as hell

                            There is no disputing that.

                            Why dont you just get on board with everyone and agree to that?

                            I have watched that bear cat whoop the pants off people for 35 years. I have also watched Strega and voodoo whoop the pants off people for the last 10 years. Perhaps you are just missing some perspective?

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                            • #29
                              Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                              Originally posted by flyingjibus View Post
                              This never gets old for you?

                              Look man, no one is disagreeing with you when you say that the super stangs are fast. They are the fastest game in town right now, by a lot.

                              But you seem to always push this narrative that there is no reason they couldnt just drop what they were doing, pop up in the air for a minute and beat the old record, or push the throttle to 11 on race day and turn 600mph laps with their eyes closed.

                              Voodoo, now appears to be very close to the speeds the Bear was capable of in its prime, probably even a tiny bit faster, Same for Strega. All three of those planes are very evenly matched when healthy and performing.

                              To make an airplanes top speed go from 300 to 400 mph can be done with some airframe mods, and a hot motor.

                              To make an airplanes top speed go from 400 to 450 mph takes some **** hot air frame mods, and a wizard engine builder.

                              To go from 450 to 475 needs all of the above, then some, and then some luck.

                              To go from 485 to 500 needs the all of the above and then the stars to align for you.

                              every mph over 500 is year of work, and cubic dollars.


                              Strega=fast as hell
                              Voodoo=fast as hell
                              Bear=fast as hell

                              There is no disputing that.

                              Why dont you just get on board with everyone and agree to that?

                              I have watched that bear cat whoop the pants off people for 35 years. I have also watched Strega and voodoo whoop the pants off people for the last 10 years. Perhaps you are just missing some perspective?
                              I am responding to you because, pretty much responding to Grampi is like teaching a pig to sing. I have no dog in the hunt anymore, I designed and made the parts for changing the wing incidence angle on Strega, I designed the parts for changing the wing incidence angle on Voodoo. I was involved in the Rare Bear engine program until my Dad and I had a disagreement in 1999, 1999 & 2000 were spent with Strega. the next year I was moved by Dwight Thorn over to the Dago Red program. So I may have a little more real knowledge of the aircraft involved than Grampi. With a fully healthy Bear and Lyle Shelton in the cockpit none of the Mustangs mentioned could beat the Bear. Unfortunately time has robbed us of both of those assets. The Bear has been taken down a road that the people who won races with her strongly disagree with. But current ownership will not allow that to be remedied, and the people who could remedy that will not work for the current ownership.
                              Last edited by BellCobraIV; 06-12-2018, 01:49 PM.
                              John Slack

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                              • #30
                                Re: Voodoo Speed Record

                                So if an airplane goes 554 mph after diving from 6000 feet AGL, and then goes 528 on the next pass when it cannot dive the same way, is it a 550 mph airplane or a 528 mph airplane?

                                A good little article on the speed record here: http://vintageaviationecho.com/voodoo-speed-record/

                                Neal

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