Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

[Race5]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

The props and hubs exist in the 1000s of turboprop applications of many different sizes, blade area, and length.

Because of this, the gearboxes also already exist.........you just have to change ratios or eliminate a stage since many are around 15:1 reduction.

This is surely less expensive than fabricating one from scratch.

For our car with a custom gearset, we simply gave the fabricators the stock unit, desired ratios, and the replacement gears showed up in the mail.

These gears handle clutchless shifts while being driven with up to 2700hp.......and have been since 2009.

We also replaced some of the cast housings with parts machined from billet.

If only it was that easy. You cannot compare the loads, harmonics, bending loads etc. that are exerted on the parts in a car vs an airplane. It's an apple to hand grenade comparison.

[Nemesis]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

Hello,

It's really nice to see some technical discussion out there for all to see. Regarding the Continental 550 vs. Lycoming TIO 540/580 weight difference. All one has to do is look at the diameter of the front of the crank of the Lycoming and how much bigger it is compared to the 550. We had a 550 in our hanger for a while, and we were surprised that the 550 was little if any larger diameter that an 0-220 used in F1. During the Thunder over Moriarty last year, we were able to run the Thunderbolt Lycoming at WOT without ADI. Same MP same MP as we ran with ADI...... Now that's a strong engine....

Jon

[Dudewanarace]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

Hello,

It's really nice to see some technical discussion out there for all to see. Regarding the Continental 550 vs. Lycoming TIO 540/580 weight difference. All one has to do is look at the diameter of the front of the crank of the Lycoming and how much bigger it is compared to the 550. We had a 550 in our hanger for a while, and we were surprised that the 550 was little if any larger diameter that an 0-220 used in F1. During the Thunder over Moriarty last year, we were able to run the Thunderbolt Lycoming at WOT without ADI. Same MP same MP as we ran with ADI...... Now that's a strong engine....

Jon

What he said...

[Race5]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

Hello,

It's really nice to see some technical discussion out there for all to see. Regarding the Continental 550 vs. Lycoming TIO 540/580 weight difference. All one has to do is look at the diameter of the front of the crank of the Lycoming and how much bigger it is compared to the 550. We had a 550 in our hanger for a while, and we were surprised that the 550 was little if any larger diameter that an 0-220 used in F1. During the Thunder over Moriarty last year, we were able to run the Thunderbolt Lycoming at WOT without ADI. Same MP same MP as we ran with ADI...... Now that's a strong engine....

Jon

Interesting. Was the lack of ADI due to trying to make a lower weight class record?

[CJAM427]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

+1 for seriously enjoying the technical discussion in this thread! And Jon, your presence here is awesome!!

Does anyone know which engine Karl Grove has in his Legacy?

This is off his Facebook page...

[Race5]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

+1 for seriously enjoying the technical discussion in this thread! And Jon, your presence here is awesome!!

Does anyone know which engine Karl Grove has in his Legacy?

This is off his Facebook page...

Lycoming.

[CJAM427]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

Sweet!

[Idaho_cowpony]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

I was under the impression that it was a Titan (Lycoming clone) / Ace modified 540 ?

[Race5]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

I was under the impression that it was a Titan (Lycoming clone) / Ace modified 540 ?

The Titan is just different cylinders on a Lycoming bottom end though, correct? Is Titan making their own cases, crank, etc?

[georgiacub]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

Hello,

It's really nice to see some technical discussion out there for all to see. Regarding the Continental 550 vs. Lycoming TIO 540/580 weight difference. All one has to do is look at the diameter of the front of the crank of the Lycoming and how much bigger it is compared to the 550. We had a 550 in our hanger for a while, and we were surprised that the 550 was little if any larger diameter that an 0-220 used in F1. During the Thunder over Moriarty last year, we were able to run the Thunderbolt Lycoming at WOT without ADI. Same MP same MP as we ran with ADI...... Now that's a strong engine....

Jon

I don't think the size of a crankshaft has much to do with what happens in the cylinder when detonation occurs. If you could run your engine without ADI and not risk detonation, then perhaps you didn't need ADI to start with?

[Dudewanarace]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

I was under the impression that it was a Titan (Lycoming clone) / Ace modified 540 ?

Basically correct. It is a Lycoming bottom end with the Advanced Component Engineering (ACE) cylinders and pistons. I'm not sure what bore they are, but 540 to as big as 568 cubic inch I think, somewhere in there.

Karl is taking a different approach than I am on a few aspects, but obviously I'm very interested to see how things work out.

[Dudewanarace]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

I don't think the size of a crankshaft has much to do with what happens in the cylinder when detonation occurs. If you could run your engine without ADI and not risk detonation, then perhaps you didn't need ADI to start with?

It is representative of the entire rotating mass though.. Also, detonation has not always been the cause of every failure. When #30 spit the prop off after PRS, he was cruising at low power at altitude. It went from 2300 rpm to 0 in 1 second. That is major part failure. Funny that his rod came through the case right next to a Performance Engines data plate as well! Ironic, or maybe not..

Regarding ADI, and again I'm still learning, but detonation is always a risk at high power levels. You just have to redefine what high really is. The more we learn, the better we get at it. As Jon pointed out, a lot more power is possible with a good system not using ADI than previously thought possible. You just have to have a good system, and understanding it. The bad part is that when you make a mistake, its a $100k+ engine..

[Race5]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

It is representative of the entire rotating mass though.. Also, detonation has not always been the cause of every failure. When #30 spit the prop off after PRS, he was cruising at low power at altitude. It went from 2300 rpm to 0 in 1 second. That is major part failure. Funny that his rod came through the case right next to a Performance Engines data plate as well! Ironic, or maybe not..

Regarding ADI, and again I'm still learning, but detonation is always a risk at high power levels. You just have to redefine what high really is. The more we learn, the better we get at it. As Jon pointed out, a lot more power is possible with a good system not using ADI than previously thought possible. You just have to have a good system, and understanding it. The bad part is that when you make a mistake, its a $100k+ engine..

I would be curious to know what fuel was used. The 145 (I think) that they use at Reno or something more exotic, like the unlimited blend, that would be more detonation resistant by design.

[georgiacub]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

It is representative of the entire rotating mass though.. Also, detonation has not always been the cause of every failure. When #30 spit the prop off after PRS, he was cruising at low power at altitude. It went from 2300 rpm to 0 in 1 second. That is major part failure. Funny that his rod came through the case right next to a Performance Engines data plate as well! Ironic, or maybe not..

Regarding ADI, and again I'm still learning, but detonation is always a risk at high power levels. You just have to redefine what high really is. The more we learn, the better we get at it. As Jon pointed out, a lot more power is possible with a good system not using ADI than previously thought possible. You just have to have a good system, and understanding it. The bad part is that when you make a mistake, its a $100k+ engine..

Detonation happens in the cylinders. You could have the piston wrapped with 10 feet of steel and that won't keep the piston from being destroyed if massive detonation occurs.

[Nemesis]

Re: Sport Glass Gold Kitplanes Article

As said, probably we didn't need to use ADI after all. But that is a really scary thing to creep up on. At Reno and at Thunder Over Moriarty, we used the VP "Air Race" fuel. 147/160. The key thing is keeping the induction temp low. If one can do that ADI is not needed. But it is a GREAT insurance policy. One of the fond memories, is when we advanced the throttle,when we got to the designated MP, of 45 inches, the computer kicked the pumps into gear, and OOOOOOH that smell! The ADI spray and induction injection, just made an aroma that made you think all is well.....I really feel for the planes that have to have a manual switch or knob or whatever to operate things like ADI, and waste gates etc. Our team, and the Lycoming Thunderbolt team made my job easy. Heaven knows I needed the EASY button! The easier it can be made the less those "Bang" noises come around. The "Pink Beast" and the team just made it easy, all was needed was dial up the RPM, bury the knobs, point it and hold on.

It's all fun to talk about this stuff.

Jon