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It's a thing of beauty!

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  • #16
    Re: It's a thing of beauty!

    Looks like an F-104 Starfighter in the background of the hangar. Another interesting plane.

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    • #17
      Re: It's a thing of beauty!

      I believe that plane's been 500mph (or close to it) during a record attempt over biscayne bay.

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      • #18
        Re: It's a thing of beauty!

        Originally posted by IcePaq View Post
        I believe that plane's been 500mph (or close to it) during a record attempt over biscayne bay.
        They tried a 3km in June of 1952. They reported a first run of 510 and a second run of 503, then the engine developed problems. That's the 'official' report.

        I however wave the b.s. flag on this. Those speeds may have been 'reported' by Johnson's crew (as relayed by Johnson), but consider the facts here:

        In spite of Johnson's Mustang having the single-stage 225 Merlin (which is lighter), let's look at the performance of a highly modified 225 in Jack Sandberg's Tipsy Too in 1982 at Reno. It ran on the course in the 360's-380's....speeds comparable to what Johnson was turning at Cleveland, but on Reno's shorter course. Even though it was a semi-stock airframe, it was clean, and Jack's Merlin was undoubtedly putting out significantly more power than anything Johnson could have done to it (or actually National Air Lines mechanics) with 1952 parts and technology. It's important to remember that Sandberg was testing that single stage Merlin to be used on Tsunami...but they abandoned it in favor of a dual stage -7/-9 hybrid because the single stage just did not make enough power.

        In 1969, when Greenamyer finally broke Wendell's record it was set at Edwards AFB on a 100 + degree day at 2,300 feet above sea level. His speed average was 483, with flirting at 500 mph on a couple passes. Greenamyer's plane had a very hot motor and had the cleanest airframe ever to attempt the record.

        In 1979 when Hinton broke Darryl's record at 499.018 at Tonopah, NV it was at 5,400 feet above sea level on another very hot day. His passes on the fast legs were around 510....with a modified airframe and a Griffon motor.

        Johnson made his attempt on June 6, 1952. The temp in Miami that day was a high of 89 with a wind speed of 8 knots (God, the internet is great for data like that)...at Sea Level. Anyone who has ever been in Florida in the middle of June knows how heavy the humidity is in the air on a day like that. And at Sea Level there is no way.....NO WAY....that THAT airplane, even with the modifications, but the essentially 'stock' motor, could have done 510 mph GROUND SPEED. He may have seen it on the airspeed indicator momentarily, but Indicated Air Speed, corrected for density altitude, temperature, and height above sea level is a vastly different number than what the actual ground speed would be. Ground speed is what is used to time the 3km.

        I have never seen anything official to suggest that the numbers and data reported were anything but 'publicity' by Johnson in order to attract a sponsor for another try at the record....which never materialized.

        I am very open to discussion on this topic, but aerodynamic numbers don't lie....and if anyone has real data to the contrary, I will be the first one to admit I was wrong.
        Last edited by Big_Jim; 10-16-2015, 07:04 PM.

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        • #19
          Re: It's a thing of beauty!

          Originally posted by Big_Jim View Post
          ...Johnson made his attempt on June 6, 1952. The temp in Miami that day was a high of 89 with a wind speed of 8 knots (God, the internet is great for data like that)...at Sea Level. Anyone who has ever been in Florida in the middle of June knows how heavy the humidity is in the air on a day like that. And at Sea Level there is no way.....NO WAY....that THAT airplane, even with the modifications...
          As always, a great post by Big Jim. However, humid air isn't heavy - even though it feels that way.

          Otherwise, I agree with your post and don't believe that Johnson was anywhere near 500 mph at sea level.

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          • #20
            Re: It's a thing of beauty!

            Originally posted by FlyKidChris View Post
            As always, a great post by Big Jim. However, humid air isn't heavy - even though it feels that way.
            I think he was speaking figuratively and not literally. Just because humid air has lower air density (since H2O vapor is lighter than nitrogen or oxygen) it does penalize aircraft significantly: The lifting force of the wing decreases, the power produced by the engine decreases, and the thrust of a propeller decreases. These performance losses more than offset the reduced drag on the aircraft in less dense air. So in layman's terms the air appears heavier since the plane moves slower... and it does "feel" that way when you visit Florida in the Summer (something I don't recommend - the humidity is miserable).

            I agree with you 110% on the first point - it is a great post
            Mark K....

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            • #21
              Re: It's a thing of beauty!

              My pictures from a visit here:

              Billions of happy photos, millions of passionate customers. Gorgeous online photo albums. Protect your priceless memories. Buy beautiful prints & gifts.
              May all your bent wings be F2G Corsairs!

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