If Rare Bear can do 528...

[TheRickster]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

This is a great vid to watch. Skip talks about Tsunami as well other aircraft.. He does state that on the Sat before he ran Tsunami at 586mph@ 100inches...

[toldjaso]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

So are you saying pilots like Stevo or Tiger don't have the skills required to break the record?

No, Grampi, what I meant was if you had had a pilot with the skills and determination and mindset of a Stevo, or a Tiger, or even a Skip Holm in the cockpit of the Rare Bear, it would have won the Reno Air Races as well as it could very well have set a new 3K World Record in 2012, probably at 550 and change.
Instead, they were more worried about getting JCP and a bunch of guys to stay home, to up the kitty that they could split after the races.
But, everyone who was not involved, and a few that were, probably would say that I am full of it. So be it.
The world will never see what potential the Bear had then, as most of the go fast goodies ended up in the dumpster after 2012.
Yes, Grampi, a Mustang may be faster for a lap or two, or even straight out, but they do not have the endurance to match what a healthy Bear or even a Furious or 232 would do, under the right program.
The cycle in air racing has always been the same- some new guy brings or buys a plane or planes, and thinks he has the money to beat everyone else.
They might even win a few, but usually end up loosing interest after a while where things do not go their way. So a lot of blood, sweat and tears is down the drain when the owner decides to pull the plug.
Most people just see the week of the races, and do not realize that it takes all year to get ready for the next gig.
Just my $.02 worth.

[thunderstangfan]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

we are wasting our time here, gramps is too ignorant to understand what's being said or care...

[grampi]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

we are wasting our time here, gramps is too ignorant to understand what's being said or care...

You hilarious!

[knot4u]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

The cycle in air racing has always been the same- some new guy brings or buys a plane or planes, and thinks he has the money to beat everyone else.
They might even win a few, but usually end up loosing interest after a while where things do not go their way. So a lot of blood, sweat and tears is down the drain when the owner decides to pull the plug.
Most people just see the week of the races, and do not realize that it takes all year to get ready for the next gig.
Just my $.02 worth.

I wouldn't call Bob Button "some new guy". I first met him at "Willie" in 1995 when he brought an airplane formerly known as "Pegasus" and renamed "Voodoo Chile". That program started with a fairly stock mustang almost 20 yrs ago and are the top dog now. It's pretty cool to have seen that evolution, even if I wasn't involved. One thing that sticks with me was that night in 1995 Bob told us he was doing it for his dad, I'm sure his dad is proud. You can ask BCIV about hung starts and Dwight coming in through the side door, red wine intact.

[grampi]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

Yes, Grampi, a Mustang may be faster for a lap or two, or even straight out, but they do not have the endurance to match what a healthy Bear or even a Furious or 232 would do, under the right program.

You mean like the endurance it takes to win a gold race?

[toldjaso]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

I wouldn't call Bob Button "some new guy". I first met him at "Willie" in 1995 when he brought an airplane formerly known as "Pegasus" and renamed "Voodoo Chile". That program started with a fairly stock mustang almost 20 yrs ago and are the top dog now. It's pretty cool to have seen that evolution, even if I wasn't involved. One thing that sticks with me was that night in 1995 Bob told us he was doing it for his dad, I'm sure his dad is proud. You can ask BCIV about hung starts and Dwight coming in through the side door, red wine intact.

Thank You for helping me prove my point that the pilot and crew chief and crew is usually what brings success to a race team, not just having a fast plane.
My Kudos to Bob Button and everyone ever involved to get Voodoo to the front.
Now, how many years did it take, again? And how many dollars???
How many times was it up for sale?
It takes all you have to get there. Nothing less will do.

[grampi]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

For those saying a Mustang can't carry enough fluids for a record attempt, wasn't the Red Baron a Mustang?

[toldjaso]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

For those saying a Mustang can't carry enough fluids for a record attempt, wasn't the Red Baron a Mustang?

No, I think they said your Toyota Prius can't carry enough fluids, Grampi...

[knot4u]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

For those saying a Mustang can't carry enough fluids for a record attempt, wasn't the Red Baron a Mustang?

Yes, and the bearcat shattered its record.

[knot4u]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

People always say that Rare Bear ran out of nitrous during the record run, and that's true, but it wasn't because of a lack of capacity.

[Big_Jim]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

I am curious why we still end up coming back around to the same old 'discussions' from the same old parties on all sides?

Here's the bottom line, there are a handful of racers that are capable of breaking the Bear's retired 3km record. But theoretical speed doesn't mean anything if you don't get it in the record books. And until somebody ponies up the money and resources to actually go DO it, it's all speculation. What one party has personally seen in testing is just as valid (or trivial) as what a rail-bird thinks should be...because neither of them, nor anything in between, counts until someone actually DOES it.

In Unlimited hydroplane racing Roy Duby went out and set the mile speed record in 1962 at just over 200 mph. And when he did it he was on the ragged edge and almost lost it several times. It was a record that over the next forty years was untouched. It's not that people never tried. It should have been easy with the leaps in design technology. In fact, in a 15 year span five different teams attempted it and all failed. Of those, the Squire Shop and Red Man teams had 2nd-tier equipment and had a marginal chance at best. But three of them...Harrah's Tahoe Miss, Pride of Pay'n Pak, and Miss Budweiser (twice)...had the best drivers, top notch equipment, and deep pockets available to them. The Miss Budweiser team should have had it in the bag in 1979, but records are records for a reason and by definition aren't easy to break...because if they were, anyone could go do it. That attempt ended in a totally destroyed boat and a driver that was nearly killed.

By the 1990's, the boats were easily hitting 200 mph on the race course at the end of the chutes and everyone agreed that it 'should in theory' be easy to go out and pick the record off. There were a lot of people who talked big, but nobody actually went out and DID it.

The team that I was on at the time actually went out and did it. We broke the record by the required percentage. Not by much, but enough to get the record. And then you know what happened? All the other teams in the pits came out and said "Yeah, well that was kind of low-hanging fruit....would could've gone out there and gone faster". Point is...they didn't. Until you DO, what you think your team is capable of is just talk.

So in theory Strega or Voodoo or Rare Bear or 232, or who knows...maybe even Precious Metal, COULD go out and break the record. They're probably CAPABLE of it. But until they do, Lyle's 529 will the mark to beat...whether it's retired or not. Arguing and debating endlessly of whether someone can or can't without doing it is pointless.

[toldjaso]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

I am curious why we still end up coming back around to the same old 'discussions' from the same old parties on all sides?

Here's the bottom line, there are a handful of racers that are capable of breaking the Bear's retired 3km record. But theoretical speed doesn't mean anything if you don't get it in the record books. And until somebody ponies up the money and resources to actually go DO it, it's all speculation. What one party has personally seen in testing is just as valid (or trivial) as what a rail-bird thinks should be...because neither of them, nor anything in between, counts until someone actually DOES it.

In Unlimited hydroplane racing Roy Duby went out and set the mile speed record in 1962 at just over 200 mph. And when he did it he was on the ragged edge and almost lost it several times. It was a record that over the next forty years was untouched. It's not that people never tried. It should have been easy with the leaps in design technology. In fact, in a 15 year span five different teams attempted it and all failed. Of those, the Squire Shop and Red Man teams had 2nd-tier equipment and had a marginal chance at best. But three of them...Harrah's Tahoe Miss, Pride of Pay'n Pak, and Miss Budweiser (twice)...had the best drivers, top notch equipment, and deep pockets available to them. The Miss Budweiser team should have had it in the bag in 1979, but records are records for a reason and by definition aren't easy to break...because if they were, anyone could go do it. That attempt ended in a totally destroyed boat and a driver that was nearly killed.

By the 1990's, the boats were easily hitting 200 mph on the race course at the end of the chutes and everyone agreed that it 'should in theory' be easy to go out and pick the record off. There were a lot of people who talked big, but nobody actually went out and DID it.

The team that I was on at the time actually went out and did it. We broke the record by the required percentage. Not by much, but enough to get the record. And then you know what happened? All the other teams in the pits came out and said "Yeah, well that was kind of low-hanging fruit....would could've gone out there and gone faster". Point is...they didn't. Until you DO, what you think your team is capable of is just talk.

So in theory Strega or Voodoo or Rare Bear or 232, or who knows...maybe even Precious Metal, COULD go out and break the record. They're probably CAPABLE of it. But until they do, Lyle's 529 will the mark to beat...whether it's retired or not. Arguing and debating endlessly of whether someone can or can't without doing it is pointless.

So, I guess your entire post is....pointless....

[jarrodeu]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

How dare you post something that makes that much sense!
Jarrod

[Big_Jim]

Re: If Rare Bear can do 528...

So, I guess your entire post is....pointless....

No, actually the point is...the day that they give out World Speed Records based on what could have been and/or what you have seen in testing, instead of actually doing, you guys will be first in line for the 3km.