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Thread: THE REAL SCOOP - Reno Unlimited Course

  1. #1
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    Default THE REAL SCOOP - Reno Unlimited Course

    There's a constant confusion as to the Unlimited race course, it's changes, and the so called 'optimum race path'.

    Let's lay-out the specifics....

    The attacks on our country, 9/11/2001
    RARA and the races also suffered, as the races were cancelled mid-week. (During qualifying) Nothing could fly. RARA lost a bunch of $$$.

    However, they managed to come back..and bring us racing in 2002. And we had racing. Thanks RARA and Fans!

    Note; Skip was at the helm of Dago, and he showed it's awesome potential by posting a qualifying speed of 497 and change.

    But unfortunately, still no 500mph...

    in 2002, the new 'JET' class had started..in hopes of gaining fans and exposure..but...well we know the outcome of that.

    For those attending the races for at least the last two decades, you know how elusive the 500mph lap was (IS)

    ENTER RENO 2003

    RARA knew they had a hot bird returning in Skip, and Dago. They also knew that 500+ would bring in the fans. So what did they do? They devised a new means of measuring the race course(s) The excuse was, it would be more accurate..
    In reality, it was a false calculation, devised to give the papers the 500mph mark. And it worked.. Look at Dago's 2003 records.

    But guess what? Still NO REAL 500 mph Unlimited lap.

    And guess what.. using the old standard.. there still has not been one.

    Add to the confusion, the course has gotten smaller and smaller.
    After the events of 2011, the race course was seriously evaluated.

    Most people confuse the new post-2011 Unlimited course as being just smaller. This is not true. Ask the Gold Sport class pilots too.. It is a little bit smaller... But much more efficient. It is a faster course, regardless of it's size, than the 2011 course. Is it faster than the old 9+ mile course? Probably not.. But it's certainly faster than 2011.

    The details:

    Today RARA publishes the Unlimited course at 8.0851 miles.

    The actual course distance is: 7.9107 miles

    What's the difference?

    Published: Stevo's 2014 Q-Time 01:00.731 = 479.267mph
    Actual: Stevo's 2014 Q-Time 01:00.731 = 468.931mph

    What would a real 500mph lap be on the clock?? About 00:56.957

    Or, or a lap published at 511.023mph

    The design of today's course, excluding the height restrictions, has the most efficient course at Reno, to-date. It doesn't favor the Bearcat. If Penney was on the course again, #77 would have half a chance. I've observed the Gold Unlimited's now from #2,#4,#5,#8, and the West Valley. Hoot's flying the best line. Will Whiteside might be a close second. Either of those guys in a Healthy Strega, or Voodoo..and you'd see that 511 shattered.

    Would really like to see Stevo fly a different line between #6/8, and #2...


    Who wants to see a genuine 500mph lap in 2015? I know I want it!!

    - Joseph

  2. #2

    Default Re: THE REAL SCOOP - Reno Unlimited Course

    Lyle or Skip.......

  3. #3
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    Default Re: THE REAL SCOOP - Reno Unlimited Course

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisMX105 View Post
    Lyle or Skip.......
    Correct you are.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: THE REAL SCOOP - Reno Unlimited Course

    you really believe a point to point measurement between the pylons to be more accurate than a radius based on g load? REALLY...
    Todd Smith

  5. #5
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    Default Re: THE REAL SCOOP - Reno Unlimited Course

    The point-to-point is not supposed to be 'more accurate'. But it is what has been used in nearly every venue of air racing, since '46. So when comparing records, speeds, etc.. Yes.

    Did the Bendix 'calculate' how much distance is lost by the pilot's course, pattern, or any other deviation? No.

    There's no debate that the aircraft's actual GS in MPH is closer to the new method.

    But in reality.. who cares about that?

    It's speed around a measured course. Same as any other racing motorsport.

    1/4 mile is a 1/4 mile, regardless of how much rubber you leave at the start line.

    - Joseph

  6. #6
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    Default Re: THE REAL SCOOP - Reno Unlimited Course

    so you are saying... we have done it wrong since the beginning so we should just keep doing it that way! lol
    the way they are doing it is the way it should be Done!
    a 1/4 mile is a valid measurement, an airplane can't physically fly point to point at the pylons so your comparison isn't valid!

    the restrictions on setting speed records were changed to take advantage of new technology! doesn't take anything away from what Lyle did in the bear. it doesn't take anything away from the guys doing it in the future... if anything it cements Lyle forever as a god in aviation.
    this idea of doing it this way because its always been done that way is stupid! its one of the defining failures in rara over the years...
    get over it!
    Last edited by thunderstangfan; 09-27-2014 at 06:44 PM.
    Todd Smith

  7. #7

    Unhappy Re: THE REAL SCOOP - Reno Unlimited Course

    I don't think anyone is saying either way is right or wrong, Just that it is an apples to oranges comparison. Can't say that the aircraft today are faster without taking the change into consideration.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: THE REAL SCOOP - Reno Unlimited Course

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderstangfan View Post
    you really believe a point to point measurement between the pylons to be more accurate than a radius based on g load? REALLY...
    Why yes, I think, most of us do! It's the only way to determine the distance between pylons in a real world environment. So, you think, measuring on a concept of how many "g'S" a given class might generate between pylons to be a measure that should be thrown into the mix of true timing between a given course distance waypoint and the untimate goal?

    Completely takes out the piloting skills of anyone able to outfly the "given" course..

    Hate to be harsh but I expect a really good argument supporting your stance to make this worthwhile.. You are actually, unless I'm off base and misunderstood the message, you are the first person to actually defend the G's versus Distance theory as being a realistic argument..

    Can't want to see where this one goes!

    Wayne Sagar
    "Pusher of Electrons"

  9. #9
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    Default Re: THE REAL SCOOP - Reno Unlimited Course

    [QUOTE=AAFO_WSagar;122103]Why yes, I think, most of us do! It's the only way to determine the distance between pylons in a real world environment.
    in a real world environment, how does a pilot fly the race course? I think he flys "around" it... you could never fly the plane in as short a course as the point to point measurement because you would have to fly over the pylons and I think that's called a "cut"!
    I
    Todd Smith

  10. #10
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    Default Re: THE REAL SCOOP - Reno Unlimited Course

    you guys need to think about g loading and how an airplane scrubs off speed in turns... ex Mike Brown in September fury with the short wings.
    Todd Smith

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