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  • Rare Bear question

    I ask this question with the ultimate respect: What is up with Rare Bear. Maybe I'm outdated, but isn't the Bear the fastest plane out there? When it is running strong, I always thought it was the one to beat. When Lewis purchased it, I thought it was only going to improve thanks to the increase in $$$ available. Has it been a string of bad luck, bad management, engineering? I'm only asking this as a fan who is glad guys are out there willing to bank roll these teams so I can enjoy them every year.

  • #2
    Re: Rare Bear question

    Now THIS should be an interesting thread...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Rare Bear question

      I have one number for you.

      3

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Rare Bear question

        Originally posted by JetsareforKids View Post
        I ask this question with the ultimate respect: What is up with Rare Bear. Maybe I'm outdated, but isn't the Bear the fastest plane out there? When it is running strong, I always thought it was the one to beat. When Lewis purchased it, I thought it was only going to improve thanks to the increase in $$$ available. Has it been a string of bad luck, bad management, engineering? I'm only asking this as a fan who is glad guys are out there willing to bank roll these teams so I can enjoy them every year.
        Money and equipment are only part of the equation. The right personnel and the cumulative braintrust that know how to exploit the equipment and the data that goes with it is the other part of it. Shelton, Hickle, Shaw, Gregoire, with the handshake agreement of Bill Jones, spent YEARS developing the race motor program. While some of the names of the Shelton-era braintrust came along for a little while with the sale to the new management, there are a lot of names from the era of the Bearcat's greatest success that did not. You can't discount what that meant.

        Nothing of that is meant to disrespect the current group of people working on the project, of whom I have a great amount of respect for. However, I know first hand that when one of the pilots asked the 'old group' for help, and the new group was given a suggested remedy that was known to work, the new group said 'Thanks, but we've got things under control, and we think our way is better'. So be it. The resultant track record since the sale speaks for itself.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Rare Bear question

          Originally posted by wingman View Post
          Now THIS should be an interesting thread...

          Don't get your hopes up too much that anyone will really want to reply to this subject anymore.
          When this was hashed out in other threads here, such as when someone tried to "set the record straight" a while back, all of the guys who had anything but high praise for the current and past pilots were just accused of the old sour grapes and hatemongering.
          So, I for one will not be getting dragged into this anymore about the Rare Bear or it's journeys.
          Don't know about the other guys who used to give a care about it, but that is my take.
          As far as the success or lack therof of the program since the new crew took over after the race in 2012, all I can say is that is when I adopted my current name. (toldjaso).
          Out Here.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Rare Bear question

            Originally posted by toldjaso View Post
            Don't get your hopes up too much that anyone will really want to reply to this subject anymore.
            When this was hashed out in other threads here, such as when someone tried to "set the record straight" a while back, all of the guys who had anything but high praise for the current and past pilots were just accused of the old sour grapes and hatemongering.
            So, I for one will not be getting dragged into this anymore about the Rare Bear or it's journeys.
            Don't know about the other guys who used to give a care about it, but that is my take.
            As far as the success or lack therof of the program since the new crew took over after the race in 2012, all I can say is that is when I adopted my current name. (toldjaso).
            Out Here.
            I'll bite..

            Hey TJS.. lots of folks share the frustration! Personally, I bought three cans of my favorite biscuit bisquit gravy so's to soften my plate of crow that I actually hoped to eat..

            Makes me sad when I think of the engineering genius that went into that piece of artwork exhaust system.. cut up and scrapped.

            *sigh*

            Tip 'O the iceberg it is..

            Wayne Sagar
            "Pusher of Electrons"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Rare Bear question

              Originally posted by AAFO_WSagar View Post
              I'll bite..

              Hey TJS.. lots folks share the frustration! Personally, I bought three cans of my biscuit bisquit gravy so's to soften my plate of crow that I actually hoped to eat..

              Makes me sad when I think of the engineering genius that went into that piece of artwork exhaust system.. cut up and scrapped.

              *sigh*

              Tip 'O the iceberg it is..

              I have read numerous threads regarding the issues with the Bear and the crew change, the thread involving John Penney, etc. Without re-hashing any of the well-discussed problems there, I keep hearing about the former exhaust system and would love to know more about it (from a gearhead point of view, not trying to stir up drama). My understanding is that in lieu of essentially straight pipes for every cylinder (which is what I understand stock to be, please correct me if not) it tied certain cylinders together depeanding on where they were at in the firing order to allow one cylinder's exhaust pulses to scavenge another?

              Again, not trying to go down the path that toldjaso refers to, just curious in general.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Rare Bear question

                Originally posted by omalley1537 View Post
                <snip......would love to know more about it (from a gearhead point of view, not trying to stir up drama). My understanding is that in lieu of essentially straight pipes for every cylinder (which is what I understand stock to be, please correct me if not) it tied certain cylinders together depeanding on where they were at in the firing order to allow one cylinder's exhaust pulses to scavenge another?

                Again, not trying to go down the path that toldjaso refers to, just curious in general.
                OK, I'm strictly from the same position as you.

                As I understand it.....

                BIG QUALIFICATION!

                This is hearsay!

                The "BEAR" exhaust was a complicated, hard to understand beast...

                Again...

                HEAR SAY

                New crew didn't get the benefit over complication, it was done away with.

                Seeking more direct information, again above, completely, hearsay
                Wayne Sagar
                "Pusher of Electrons"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Rare Bear question

                  Discussing the engineering behind all of the mods would kind of be a betrayal of trust. Dave (and others) put a ridiculous amount of time into brainstorming, designing, building and massaging each and every little mod to the aircraft. To just throw out a "Here's how it worked and why" would not be right.

                  Every little detail was thought of to get the maximum benefit to drag reduction, power, thrust with the least amount of hindrance to any other aspect of the program. Some were tried, didn't work and were removed or modified until they did.

                  Throughout my involvement in the project there were very few occasions where more than one thing was changed so that it could be tested with certainty on impact to the program, the few occasions where more than one thing was adjusted before a flight it was because there was no possible cross-impact.

                  What has been done to the aircraft is the equivalent of taking a 10 second drag car, changing the engine, transmission, gear ratio, rev limiter, tire size, converter stall, removing the trans brake etc. Then blaming the previous builder when it only runs 14's.

                  I have been told that a statement was made along the lines of (We have removed every Cornell Mod from the engine) and the person stating so was quite proud of it.................

                  Now flame away

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Rare Bear question

                    Did we see a full power run on the course during race week from the Bear? I know know. I'm guessing we didn't. If that's the case, we don't know the potential speed from her. Just speculation on my part, but we might have seen a different outcome on Sunday if she hadn't had problems.
                    Brian

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Rare Bear question

                      Caution; the following is a severe passion filled rant full of controversial thoughts that may tighten your panties to the point of great pain.

                      My take on the Bear since Rod bought it is is that he is treating it as a part time girlfriend.

                      The Bear team needs to spend some time to dial it in. Scrambling to slap in a race engine, do a couple of test flights, then start the first heat race ten days later is insane and irresponsible. Simply doomed to fail without a sincere testing program. I really feel sorry for all the fans of the Bear because they have been teased year after year. I swear if Rod Lewis was standing next to me in the stands this year on lap 3, I woulda decked him.

                      Yeah it's his plane, yeah, it's his money. Yeah he is an "Air racing Santa Claus" with his stable of cool planes, but it is clear from his actions he does not have the passion, or drive to be a champion. So, everyone is a loser, the fans who do care, the team and the owner.

                      As much as I love that Bearcat, it is time to retire it to a museum, sell it to someone who cares to do it right, or step-up to the plate and be a man and fund a testing program.

                      Rant concluded.
                      '71 S.D.1000, '85-'91,'94',95,'97-'99,'02,'04,'06,'08,'10,'13,'14 NCAR.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Rare Bear question

                        Originally posted by supercub View Post
                        Did we see a full power run on the course during race week from the Bear? I know know. I'm guessing we didn't. If that's the case, we don't know the potential speed from her. Just speculation on my part, but we might have seen a different outcome on Sunday if she hadn't had problems.
                        Brian
                        Yes you did.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Rare Bear question

                          Originally posted by supercub View Post
                          Did we see a full power run on the course during race week from the Bear? I know know. I'm guessing we didn't. If that's the case, we don't know the potential speed from her. Just speculation on my part, but we might have seen a different outcome on Sunday if she hadn't had problems.
                          Brian
                          Supposedly, the crew was heard saying "That's all we have." After Saturday's Gold heat race.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Rare Bear question

                            Originally posted by planecrazy2 View Post
                            Caution; the following is a severe passion filled rant full of controversial thoughts that may tighten your panties to the point of great pain.

                            My take on the Bear since Rod bought it is is that he is treating it as a part time girlfriend.

                            The Bear team needs to spend some time to dial it in. Scrambling to slap in a race engine, do a couple of test flights, then start the first heat race ten days later is insane and irresponsible. Simply doomed to fail without a sincere testing program. I really feel sorry for all the fans of the Bear because they have been teased year after year. I swear if Rod Lewis was standing next to me in the stands this year on lap 3, I woulda decked him.

                            Yeah it's his plane, yeah, it's his money. Yeah he is an "Air racing Santa Claus" with his stable of cool planes, but it is clear from his actions he does not have the passion, or drive to be a champion. So, everyone is a loser, the fans who do care, the team and the owner.

                            As much as I love that Bearcat, it is time to retire it to a museum, sell it to someone who cares to do it right, or step-up to the plate and be a man and fund a testing program.

                            Rant concluded.
                            In 2009 they scrambled to "slap in" the Fifi engine, and ended up finishing in 2nd place with a race average of 479 mph.

                            In 2010 Sunday Gold was cancelled due to wind

                            In 2011.........

                            In 2012 it qualified at 491 mph, At the same HP as 2014's 476. Difference was in 2012 there was 1100 HP on tap.

                            In 2013 they blamed everything on the previous crew.

                            In 2014 they proved it wasn't the previous crew...............

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Rare Bear question

                              Great thread, but not sure of the "betrayal of trust" statement. If I understand it correctly, all, or at least most, of the modifications that were done by the "old" crew have been removed. Since the original mods don't exist anymore, and I am pretty sure there is not going to be another racer that would use them, what is the harm in letting those of us who are interested in the modifications learn more about them?

                              Comment

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