And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

[ignomini]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

I am really conflicted about this. When the Rare Bear Fan Sponsor program started, I was right there from the get go. When the plane didn't make the race, ok, we'll try again next year. It was an easy sale. Now RARA wants us to do the same for the entire program, but what is the program?

Frankly, RARA fouled the nest last year.

And now we are expected to hope, assume, whatever, that some hotshot outsiders can bring in enough "partners" to keep the racing afloat. I applaud Breitling, but wouldn't cross the sidewalk to watch the Jetman, or a so-called race between a Bentley and a stunt plane. Odds are, whomever they find, if anyone, will have their own agenda, and it won't necessarily be racing first.

As to making a TV show (thinking of the reference to pumpkin chucking), the production costs to do air racing right would be orders of magnitude higher. Secondly, and this applies to all reality programing, you have to bring on the personalities. Pete Law is an amazing man with an incredible history, but the viewing public won't be setting their DVRs to see him. Successful reality television, regardless of topic, is nowhere without compelling personalities to drive the show. To me, the racing pilots are great men, but they probably don't make for very good TV.

A big part of the potential audience for air racing doesn't like it. They want the warbirds preserved on the ground, not out breaking parts in the air. Every time we lose a pilot and plane there is a groundswell of folks saying the airplane never should have been allowed to fly. There are plenty of warbird fans, but even among them, Reno is an outlier. I can't count the number of folks who have expressed to me their interest in attending, but are never willing to spend a weekend in Reno to do it.

If RARA wants me to put up more than I already spend each year, I need a guarantee if the financial goal is met, that a full field of Unlimiteds will race. After last year, I'm not sure I trust them any more. Unfortunately, the recent moves sound more like a bid to keep doing an air show, with some racing thrown in. For those who say all the other classes make it worth going, that's fine for you. I enjoy the lesser classes, but my money and time are spent to watch warbirds race. To reiterate, I'm unconvinced the recent moves are dedicated to that specific goal.

[Air Boss]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

Seems to me that for every person who attends Reno just for the Unlimiteds, there’s one or more who attend for a wide variety of reasons, including not just the Unlimiteds, but air show acts, statics, Heritage, etc. Folks, this is no longer just air racing. Hasn’t been for some time and frankly, I feel it’s very short-sighted to regard the other classes, air show acts, etc. as being “lesser” or worse yet, irrelevant. Fact is, without those “lesser classes” and air show performers, you’re not going to enjoy the Unlimiteds at Reno. Period. The math simply doesn’t work. Why do you think Reno is as it is now? It can’t just appeal the gear-headed, round and in-line hard core warbird crowd. It’s not all about you…

Was it unfortunate the FAA, RARA, and the Unlimited folks came to logger-heads and couldn’t resolve all their difference? Sure it was. Does that mean we should throw up our hands, and say “Ya know…RARA screwed the pooch in 2013 and I’m not going to support them unless I can be assured I get what I want?” Absolutely not. This is NOT the time to pick up your marbles and go home. If that attitude had been the overriding attitude in the recent past, you wouldn't be wasting your time on this blog...these threads would have died months ago. Is that what you really want?

Ask yourself…what possible good will come from sitting on your hands, doing nothing? Either you love this sport enough to do what you can to help it survive…or you don’t. If the former, be a force for change and spread the word about helping RARA through a very rough patch. If the latter, well…we’re all entitled to our opinion but the level of angst and nay-saying does nothing but foster even more ill-will. And unless that’s you motivation (and I’d hope that’s not the case for anyone who has supported this “sport” for any length of time), it escapes me what one would hope to accomplish in doing so.

Again…there are NO GUARANTEES here. I’m not sure how else to say that. Do you get a guarantee that the money you donate to a “worthy” cause goes directly to the folks in need? Seems selfish and self-serving to me to express such a devotion to this event, then cast stones at it over and over again at virtually every turn, and withhold support when that sport you supposedly love so much is need of that support now more than ever.

Has RARA been run perfectly over the last 50 years? No…and if I know the folks at RARA they’d be the first to say they’ve made some mistake along the way. Have you (in the general sense here) run your business or done your job perfectly during that same period of time? Likely not. So imagine you employer (or your bank if you own a company) saying “Well, you messed up a bit in the last year or two…we’re pulling the plug.”

The folks who regard Reno as being a detriment to the warbird industry have been with us for a long time…they’re not going away. So what…how does that change the dynamics here?

I am still amazed at the level of negativity on this site. It seems pretty black and white to me…either you remain loyal to this sport and want to see it survive in as close to its current state as possible (INCLUDING air show and “lesser classes” that put $$$ in the coffers), or you don’t. If the former, great. Step up and help out…

If the latter...well, I'm left to wonder why and to what end?

[Magdrop]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

In the last 11 years I have spent allot of cash taking my group to the races. Last year I stood down. I have donated to many race teams that needed help. I will not give a dime until I see some numbers from RARA. The numbers just don't add up. Every day I think about unlimited air racing and log into this site to read the posts. Maybe I should just blindly donate $ to RARA and hope for the best.

[GRNDP51]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

I am still amazed at the level of negativity on this site. It seems pretty black and white to me…either you remain loyal to this sport and want to see it survive in as close to its current state as possible (INCLUDING air show and “lesser classes” that put $$$ in the coffers), or you don’t. If the former, great. Step up and help out…

Perfect way to put it, thanks. Glad to see there are still some supporters and I'm not the only one who thinks this site is being fed with negative comments on the daily. Stop the negativity or just leave the site I'm so friggin done with this honestly. I know I didn't quote you, but thanks Wild Bill your posts have stood out to me as well.

[Air Boss]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

Roger, that. While we all may harbor some level head-scratching or angst regarding the way RARA may, or may not, have handled this, or managed that, the fact remains this is the ONLY sandbox we can play in. Like it, love it, begrudge it, whatever...it's the field we are playing on.

I appreciate the fact that some folks have issues with one thing or another. No problem...so do I at times. But I, for one, am willing to cast my lot with RARA in the hopes that each September I can stand at Home Pylon and marvel at some of the worlds best pilots.. IN ALL CLASSES...and with every performer...while they do their thing. And I KNOW that goes for many folks in the stands..Section 3, GA, Reserved, Boxes...whatever.

In many respects more than any other motorsport, we have a SAY in how this goes down. Take advantage of that.

If you want to do nothing but rant and rave about this and that...about how RARA screwed this up...how RARA kicked that...fine. Whatever. You're doing nothing but killing the goose that laid the golden egg. It's OUR sport...yours and mine. Treat it gently...support it however you can.

If you can't find it in yourself to speak out in support of the challenging efforts to keep this sport you say you supposedly enjoy so much...I'd much prefer you just remain silent. This constant, constipated, condescending and contradictory attitude is really frickin' wearing thin....

Either you're on board or your not...pick one. But sitting on the sidelines throwing one bag of crap after another at RARA really gets old fellas. Put up or shut up. To those who purport to "love this sport" and yet jump on here and do little else but drag this struggling enterprise through the mud...look in the mirror.

It's the sometimes unforgiving window into reality. Do you like what you see?

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

In the last 11 years I have spent allot of cash taking my group to the races. Last year I stood down. I have donated to many race teams that needed help. I will not give a dime until I see some numbers from RARA. The numbers just don't add up. Every day I think about unlimited air racing and log into this site to read the posts. Maybe I should just blindly donate $ to RARA and hope for the best.

Mag.. I really do "get" where you and a lot of other folks are coming from.. You're seeing sort of a divide between those of us who are "blindly" donating, and, indeed, hoping for the best. The end run of all this is, YOU are RIGHT, WE are WRONG and the races end.

Next year at this time we'll be debating.....

What??

Who got the drunkest at the first annual "we're done racing but we love everyone so much we're going to keep coming here forever" gathering?

First, don't misunderstand me in thinking that what my past paragraph says.. I WILL return to the city of Air Racing in September for the rest of my life.. that's just me though.

My point is.. do you want to be right? Or you want to throw you ass into doing whatever you can, and I mean, whatever, to make an attempt to keep this thing going?

Is it that important to be right?

[Magdrop]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

I've decided to go for it and make a donation. If the S-it hits the fan I guess we can spend the week in Tahoe.

[Magdrop]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

Roger, that. While we all may harbor some level head-scratching or angst regarding the way RARA may, or may not, have handled this, or managed that, the fact remains this is the ONLY sandbox we can play in. Like it, love it, begrudge it, whatever...it's the field we are playing on.

I'm not playing in this sand box I'm paying.

I appreciate the fact that some folks have issues with one thing or another. No problem...so do I at times. But I, for one, am willing to cast my lot with RARA in the hopes that each September I can stand at Home Pylon and marvel at some of the worlds best pilots.. IN ALL CLASSES...and with every performer...while they do their thing. And I KNOW that goes for many folks in the stands..Section 3, GA, Reserved, Boxes...whatever.

I don't stand at the home pylon. Reserved seats.

In many respects more than any other motorsport, we have a SAY in how this goes down. Take advantage of that.

I think it's up to the FAA.

If you want to do nothing but rant and rave about this and that...about how RARA screwed this up...how RARA kicked that...fine. Whatever. You're doing nothing but killing the goose that laid the golden egg. It's OUR sport...yours and mine. Treat it gently...support it however you can.

RARA did not lay the golden egg the Owners, pilots, crews, and paying fans did.

If you can't find it in yourself to speak out in support of the challenging efforts to keep this sport you say you supposedly enjoy so much...I'd much prefer you just remain silent. This constant, constipated, condescending and contradictory attitude is really frickin' wearing thin....

I will not remain silent. I spend allot of money flying my group to the races each year. My condescending attitude will remain strong as long as I have doubt about the future of this sport.

Either you're on board or your not...pick one. But sitting on the sidelines throwing one bag of crap after another at RARA really gets old fellas. Put up or shut up. To those who purport to "love this sport" and yet jump on here and do little else but drag this struggling enterprise through the mud...look in the mirror.

I look in the mirror every time I rite a check.

It's the sometimes unforgiving window into reality. Do you like what you see?

I like what I see but I don't like what I see.

[Leo]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

"Stop with the negative waves, Moriarty!

Thanks Wayne, Wild Bill and Air Judge for the positive waves.

[Air Boss]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

Thanks Magdrop. Some good points.

By "playing" I mean all of us, as I mentioned. Whether you're sitting in Reserved, Box, GA, or doin' the "Shade Dance" at a pylon. We're all "playing" in that sense. Clearly those that round the sticks, and those that support those teams, are the true "players."

In the end, the FAA will have its say, no question. My point here was we have a "say" as well. While I'd certainly much prefer to not have to worry about financing year after year, in an odd way we have more of a direct effect on the survival of this incredible event than most any other form of racing. Not the best practice…but to some degree it may really be up to each of us proportionately.

My point about the golden egg is simply that those who continue to relentlessly sling mud toward RARA are doing themselves a disservice. Whether you like it or not, RARA runs the show under the FAA ever more increasingly watchful eye. Owner, pilots, crews, fans and sponsors pay the freight, but without a governing body to administer and manage the operation (the "chicken" in this "chicken and golden egg" scenario), those owners, pilots, crews, fans and sponsor would most likely scatter to the winds.

Your choice regarding your attitude, as it is with each of us. I was simply expressing mine. Negativity spreads like a cancer and destroys the will to win. Make your choices as you may…we’re all free to do so. I’m simply saying the constant public flogging of RARA does nothing to further the sport…a sport that is teetering on the abyss to some degree. Does the public display of your attitude do anything to help…or hinder? Perhaps a pointed but professionally-worded letter to RARA would be a better way to express your displeasure. I’ve always found RARA to be fairly responsive and willing to lend an ear to its fans and their concerns. As the old management expression says, “Praise in public…criticize in private.” This forum is viewed (and contributed to) by many who have a financial stake in the races. Public bickering and bitching only plants seeds of discontent. Is that worth being “right?”

Believe me, with each passing year I’m liking less and less what stares back at me in the mirror (if I take your point correctly!). And I too think about the thousands of dollars I’ve spent in airfare, RV rentals, gear, equipment, donations, and other means of support I’ve coughed-up over the years all in an effort to do my part to keep this thing shinny-side up.

“Failure is NOT an option”, gentlemen.

[tim]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

"Stop with the negative waves, Moriarty!

Wow, going deep with that quote!

[planecrazy2]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

13 days left. They have raised $6,020.00 with a goal of $250,000.

Unless an Angel steps-up, it ain't going to happen.

And really, if you were an Angel, and wanted to save the NCAR, you would not do it through a crowd funding campaign.

[ignomini]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

Airboss, I suspect a lot of the negative waves are coming from people who truly want the races to continue, myself included. I can see my previous post annoys you, but let's be honest about something here, maybe the smaller planes (you tell me what to call them) will draw a subset of the total audience, but they won't draw enough. Maybe a great airshow will draw a strong local crowd, but it won't draw the out-of-towners who bring all the extra money into the community.

I sell parts for old British sports cars, and Mazda Miatas. We have tried to draw in a younger crowd, particularly in the Miata market. It hasn't worked. Truth is, older folks have a greater interest, and more importantly, they have the money. It doesn't matter how great racing among the other classes may be, without the Unlimited lovers, you lose a fatally large chunk of the money. And the Unlimited lovers are probably by and large among the older demographics in attendance. I don't dislike any of the racing classes, but for myself and a lot of folks around me, the investment to be there is not warranted without a healthy Unlimited class. Unfortunately, I know I'm not alone in this regard. Every year, the box seats are largely empty until the heavy iron flys.

Something else I know in my heart of hearts, crowd funding $500k to put on the races ain't going to happen. As stated elsewhere in this thread, they need an angel with very deep pockets. $100 neither makes nor breaks me, but in exchange, I'm going to say what I think. The fact AAFO is a playground for many of the most dedicated, and the fact there is so much negativity right now, suggests there are deep structural problems which cannot be whitewashed out of existence.

None of what I've said here in any way lessens the respect I have for all those who have worked to make the races. Whether before or after 2011, it has been a monumental achievement.

[Dialtapper]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

Airboss, I suspect a lot of the negative waves are coming from people who truly want the races to continue, myself included. I can see my previous post annoys you, but let's be honest about something here, maybe the smaller planes (you tell me what to call them) will draw a subset of the total audience, but they won't draw enough. Maybe a great airshow will draw a strong local crowd, but it won't draw the out-of-towners who bring all the extra money into the community.

I sell parts for old British sports cars, and Mazda Miatas. We have tried to draw in a younger crowd, particularly in the Miata market. It hasn't worked. Truth is, older folks have a greater interest, and more importantly, they have the money. It doesn't matter how great racing among the other classes may be, without the Unlimited lovers, you lose a fatally large chunk of the money. And the Unlimited lovers are probably by and large among the older demographics in attendance. I don't dislike any of the racing classes, but for myself and a lot of folks around me, the investment to be there is not warranted without a healthy Unlimited class. Unfortunately, I know I'm not alone in this regard. Every year, the box seats are largely empty until the heavy iron flys.

Something else I know in my heart of hearts, crowd funding $500k to put on the races ain't going to happen. As stated elsewhere in this thread, they need an angel with very deep pockets. $100 neither makes nor breaks me, but in exchange, I'm going to say what I think. The fact AAFO is a playground for many of the most dedicated, and the fact there is so much negativity right now, suggests there are deep structural problems which cannot be whitewashed out of existence.

None of what I've said here in any way lessens the respect I have for all those who have worked to make the races. Whether before or after 2011, it has been a monumental achievement.

Very well said Neal.

[Sparrow]

Re: And the crowd funding campaign begins.....

Ditto on the commentary Neal.

Another fact of the age discussion, there are 3 of us that are in or near to our early 50's building Merlin's for a living. There ain't many lined up to follow us that I know of. Some parts are a problem, but I see a different issue over the horizon in regards to young people coming along to pick up the "torch" so to speak when us "young guys" hang it up for one reason or another..........

Sparrow