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Thread: Allison engines vs Merlins for racing

  1. #71

    Default Re: Allison engines vs Merlins for racing

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon Moer View Post
    Well, this is getting far from the A vs M topic.

    The Formula 1 Series is currently heavily invested in their Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) that is harvesting power from the engine braking and chassis braking systems and while "braking" isn't directly applicable to aircraft the technology involved will certainly be adapted to other systems.

    But, as Mr. Jackson has said 'who's going to pay for it?'.

    As far as Allison vs Merlin goes, I always thought some one would (should) build a custom supercharger and bolt it to the Allison, but no one ever did.
    In my opinion, the Allison is a better design for the core engine, but the blower is no match for the Merlin. The Allison is so smooth, that the P-38 Lightning (for example) had a solid bed engine mount, with a piece of asbestos truck brake shoe lining material sandwiched between the engine case and the mount on all four corners of the engine for vibration isolation. The Merlin has rubber elastomers to try to keep it from tearing off of the nose. The camshafts/ gearing for drives/ etc. are a better design on the Allison.
    There are people who could easily pay for the development of all these neat things, such as different gearing for the nose case, but usually back out of the projects as soon as they get more interested in a different hobby, or a new girlfriend, or whatever.

  2. #72

    Default Re: Allison engines vs Merlins for racing

    Quote Originally Posted by toldjaso View Post
    Now, everybody can have a chance to shoot down my idea about hydraulic motors.
    Please proceed!
    Two words: flow loss. Hydraulic fluid has never been an energy-efficient way of moving power from one place to another. Convenient: check. Reliable: Check. Effecient... just too much friction loss as the fluid flows through hoses, valves, pumps, and motors.

    The electric motor idea is interesting. F1 is using "thermal energy recovery" now (in addition to "kinetic energy recovery already mentioned) where the turbo is coupled to a motor/generator that can harvest energy when the turbine is generating more energy than the compressor needs for developing boost, or apply stored electrical energy as a motor to generate boost faster than exhaust gas alone (as I sketchily understand the way they're doing things). But then again, it makes a lot of sense to carry a battery in a race format where the vehicle (car in F1's case) is constantly accelerating and decelerating, increasing and then shedding kinetic energy, changing the thermal flow through the turbo entering versus exiting every corner. Air racing is much more of a steady-state thing as far as the powerplant goes, so its hard to think of any portion of a lap where the engine system could be storing energy for use on some other part of the lap.
    Last edited by 440_Magnum; 04-08-2015 at 02:36 PM.

  3. #73

    Default Re: Allison engines vs Merlins for racing

    Quote Originally Posted by 440_Magnum View Post
    Air racing is much more of a steady-state thing as far as the powerplant goes, so its hard to think of any portion of a lap where the engine system could be storing energy for use on some other part of the lap.
    "Gentlemen, you have a race... Now dive down that chute to get a good charge on your battery and save it for Sunday

  4. #74

    Default Re: Allison engines vs Merlins for racing

    Quote Originally Posted by N22252 View Post
    "... Now dive down that chute to get a good charge on your battery and save it for Sunday
    Well consider that they are coming UP on the power down the chute, using almost if not all all of it at the start. It's basically a drag race once released.

    GP

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Allison engines vs Merlins for racing

    I suggested a system of motor coupled to turbo's shaft in 2009 but later found it was patented in 1994.

    This is what next year's formula one engines may look like.

    Last edited by IcePaq; 04-24-2015 at 05:30 AM.

  6. #76

    Default Re: Allison engines vs Merlins for racing

    Since I don't have patents, who could I talk to about some ideas I have?

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Allison engines vs Merlins for racing

    Build a working model first.

    Sure, I know that a perpetual motion machine is the only device in which you have to demonstrate a working model in order to get a patent..........but........it does go a long way.

    Also remember that a patent is only as good as the ability to enforce it.

    Best idea is to make device and try to gain market share quickly while hoping the money comes in fast enough to allow you to ramp up production capability before the copycats show up........... if it hits big.

  8. #78

    Default Re: Allison engines vs Merlins for racing

    The Idea of connecting a turbo via shaft to the engine to use exhaust gas energy is old, Wright R-3350 Turbo-Compound engines using 3 turbos connected to the engine via fluid couplings were used in the Lockheed constellation and Douglas DC 7.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Allison engines vs Merlins for racing

    Yep......used to work on them.

    What I showed up top is an electric motor/generator connected to the center bearing section of a turbocharger.

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