A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

[LoveOldPlanes]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

Is that 7.9 sqft figure specific to PM? Based on the fact that a Griffon was never intended to hang on the end of a Mustang, I'd think that number could vary significantly based upon cowling design and configuration. An example would be the "blisters" used on the MAII cowling to accomodate the cam covers. The PM cowling appears to have no such blisters, so although the frontal area might be a bit larger, perhaps it would be more aerodynamic? (not an aerodynamicist) Anyway, I'd guess the 7.9 sqft number is a bit optimistic, but I defer to the experts.

As for the increased displacement, sure it's a good thing, provided you can take advantage of that extra HP. And that was the gist of my second concern - the ability to spin that prop combination fast enough to push 100+" of boost out of that blower (and yes, I know they have the Griffon -74 dual-stage blower in that motor). I believe that's the kind of power they'll likely need from the Griffon to have any chance of running with the Merlins at 130+" MAP. JMHO...

SA

Look on-line for info on the development of the Griffon. Numbers are varied, but all are close to this. The PM cowling uses an intake that goes from behind the props back to reach the downdraft carb- it doesn't use blisters to clear the valve covers because it doesn't need to. MAII used a much shorter intake with a NACA Duct. By all reports, the NACA scoop on MA II wasn't working out like they expected it to anyway, so it wasn't really an advantage. PM is using profiled props, compared to the ones on MAII...there is much different between the configurations to take into account. The Truth Is On The Course.

[Sparrow]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

[QUOTEAs for the increased displacement, sure it's a good thing, provided you can take advantage of that extra HP.][/QUOTE]

And have the ability to keep the coolant and oil temps under control for 6 & 8 lap races........

[LoveOldPlanes]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

Making them slick certainly helps, however believe me, there is a whole lot more to it than just that. Lots of things that can be done airframe wise to make the engine not work so hard........

I know somebody who went over to their hanger and they said people were crawling all over the airplane like mad ants on a picnic. Maybe that's what all those people were doing...

[Sparrow]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

As for the increased displacement, sure it's a good thing, provided you can take advantage of that extra HP.

And have the ability to keep the coolant and oil temps under control for 6 & 8 lap races........

[Sparrow]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

There is also, at this point, one 2 stage Griffon running. The learning curve of running the Griffon up on power was already done by the boat racers. Don't think there's a lot of them guys floating around the UnLtd pits these days

[LoveOldPlanes]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

There is also, at this point, one 2 stage Griffon running. The learning curve of running the Griffon up on power was already done by the boat racers. Don't think there's a lot of them guys floating around the UnLtd pits these days

If I remember right, Griffons were used in Spits and a number of other planes. I would expect more than one to still be running around. I am probably wrong. I figured that didn't matter, they seem to have a set-up that works together so far. I wonder if anybody knows if the boat racers need to make power at the same rpm's as an aircraft needs to. There may not be any boat racers around they pits, but I bet they have telephones. I wonder who the team calls when they need to know something about a Griffon. Wild Bill seems to know a lot about them. I heard he has worked on the plane a bunch of times. I think I read he went down to help them build the engine too.

[Sparrow]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

There's a few of us that pass through here that probably know some of the boat racers......

Griffons in the boats had a different carb set, custom blower drive's set made by Budweiser and a few other things to make them live at around 4500 Rpm. I think the current PM engine contains at least "some" of the Bud gears.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

I believe that's the kind of power they'll likely need from the Griffon to have any chance of running with the Merlins at 130+" MAP. JMHO...

What's cool is that we're able to have this discussion at all!

[Tigercat24]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

I think that's what a lot of people don't remember, just who did 232 beat? Dreadnought. Now there's a bitching airplane that just bats cleanup and keeps the top dogs honest. But if the only airplane you beat head to head is Dreadnought?

It's like the first Indy 500 after the split from CART, there should be an asterisk by the winners name. Yes you won, but there was no real competition.

2-3-2 went head to head with Strega that year, which apparently everyone on this forum forgot about. Strega pulled up on the last lap. That's why Dread came second.

And 2-3-2's average speed was 481.619 MPH while, according to former crew telemetry expert Luvara, not being pushed...not bad for an "asterisk".

How about y'all let me be a fan of my favorite racer, the racer that I am most likely to do my homework on.

[LoveOldPlanes]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

There's a few of us that pass through here that probably know some of the boat racers......

Griffons in the boats had a different carb set, custom blower drive's set made by Budweiser and a few other things to make them live at around 4500 Rpm. I think the current PM engine contains at least "some" of the Bud gears.

Seems to me that what some boat racers did 30 some years ago doesn't really matter that much these days. They were good in their day- but we now have computers to figure things out on, internet communications to make contact with experts all over the world and the world of Unlimited Class Air Racing has moved far beyond what it was when the first Griffon Powered Mustangs were built. Just having a rebuilt engine without worn out tolerances from being abused in a boat has got to be a huge improvement. I can't imagine it was simply rebuilt to the specs of a boat engine from 30 years ago. Plus, Florida is a crazy place. Everybody likes to write it off as being filled with stupid rednecks, but one thing those rednecks love is their machinery. How many of those written-off rednecks did their time at NASA or the like? God only knows what they may be brewing up down there in Kissimmee....I've heard there are people working 24 hours a day on the project.

[Tigercat24]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

For those who still dont believe it happened or remember Strega trying to chase Mike Brown down, I submit Exhibit A:

[LoveOldPlanes]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

2-3-2 went head to head with Strega that year, which apparently everyone on this forum forgot about. Strega pulled up on the last lap. That's why Dread came second.

And 2-3-2's average speed was 481.619 MPH while, according to former crew telemetry expert Luvara, not being pushed...not bad for an "asterisk".

How about y'all let me be a fan of my favorite racer, the racer that I am most likely to do my homework on.

I love them all. Cheer for your favorite and I'll cheer for mine. The best thing is we can all wave the flag for the Team we like best. It wouldn't be Racing without other teams to compete against!!! May the best plane win (Of course, I think that is Team Precious Metal....)....! Geez, I have to find my suitcase and get packed!

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

If I remember right, Griffons were used in Spits and a number of other planes. I would expect more than one to still be running around. I am probably wrong. I figured that didn't matter, they seem to have a set-up that works together so far. I wonder if anybody knows if the boat racers need to make power at the same rpm's as an aircraft needs to. There may not be any boat racers around they pits, but I bet they have telephones. I wonder who the team calls when they need to know something about a Griffon. Wild Bill seems to know a lot about them. I heard he has worked on the plane a bunch of times. I think I read he went down to help them build the engine too.

This is my sixth year on the Griffon and it's the only warbird engine I have had down to the block and rebuilt/assembled. Most common people on my short list are Nixon and Jeff Neff. Most of my knowledge comes from lots and lots of reading. As far as running up the power goes I think our goal is to run it at or just above rated power, and find other ways to improve on lap speeds. Such as turning power into thrust, and bleeding off less speed under g-load.

[Thom Richard]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

I love it when the crack pipe comes out!

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

And have the ability to keep the coolant and oil temps under control for 6 & 8 lap races........

We got that sorted out last year, and Thom refined it even further this year.