A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

[Smee Again]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

I'm gonna say 38 is gonna be well in front of 232 if both are healthy, (Hypothetically speaking) I am looking at PM chewing some tailfeathers off of 5 & 7 if not leading the pack.

Let me first say that I was VERY pleasantly surprised with PM last year. I never figured they stood a prayer of seeing 450+ based on propeller and aerodynamics, but I happily ate crow when they did 465+. That said, I will be playing Missouri again this year - show me! Three major things concern me with PMs attempts to run with the front runners: 1) The frontal area created by the big Griffon, 2) The ability to spin those contra-props enough to generate the 100+" of MAP they will need to see 490+ and 3) The retention of a "divided" doghouse (radiator and oil cooler). The first two are what they are - no way to change that circumstance - but I believe major changes to the scoop/doghouse will be necessary for the racer to realize it's full potential. The scoop extension they are running this year will help some, but that oil cooler/radiator combo is going to account for some serious aerodynamic drag.

But like I said, show me! Best of luck to PM and all the crew this year.

SA

[flyingjibus]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

Ya'll are too easy to rile up.

I have never seen a plane on the course pass another for the lead on the back stretch the way the early 90's Bear did in some of those races. Insane speed and power.



and there is this:

3 km World Speed Record of 528.33 mph (850.26 km/h) set August 21, 1989

but I know that the numbers defeat my argument. Just having fun.


Im really excited to see what PM can do. Honestly I think I am rooting for them this year. It's time for another six bladed winner.

If Voodoo had WW at the stick I would be all over that. Nothing against Stevo, I just hate repetition.

[wingman]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

[V1670]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

Im really excited to see what PM can do. Honestly I think I am rooting for them this year. It's time for another six bladed winner.

If Voodoo had WW at the stick I would be all over that. Nothing against Stevo, I just hate repetition.

Repetition? If Steveo wins; he's in a new ride, so no repetiton there. If Strega wins; new pilot, so no repetition there.
That's just ONE aspect that's gonna make this year so special. And it makes it so difficult to pick a favorite; PM/CM/Strega/Voodoo/ the Bear/232/Dread.....I wish they could all grab the Gold. 9 days boys; gettin' all stoked up.

[LoveOldPlanes]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

1) The frontal area created by the big Griffon,

But like I said, show me! Best of luck to PM and all the crew this year.

SA

Not sure where the on-going issue over frontal size comes from. The frontal area of a Griffon is 7.9 Square Feet as compared to the Merlin's 7.5 Square Feet. In addition, the Griffon is 36% more displacement than the Merlin. That sounds like a really good trade-off to me....It's not like this is a radial sitting up front- and a number of those happen to do just fine around the pylons.

[Idaho_cowpony]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

Regarding what we saw from 232/Hoot last year...
Easily add 40mph to any of last years laps. And we,re getting closer to 'potential'. And that's being very conservative.

I kindly ask Hoot, Rod, or anyone from AA in Grangeville to add their amen. We know it's true.

In regards to #38, she's not going to need generous #'s from me, to for-see hot laps in the 515 range.

Sat with Bill Rogers in the Pits, arrival day of the debut of Ashley II... Yes the Griffon was chose on that project for a reason... and yes it can and will out-pull a Mouse Merlin Mustang.

- Joseph

[Smee Again]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

Not sure where the on-going issue over frontal size comes from. The frontal area of a Griffon is 7.9 Square Feet as compared to the Merlin's 7.5 Square Feet. In addition, the Griffon is 36% more displacement than the Merlin. That sounds like a really good trade-off to me....It's not like this is a radial sitting up front- and a number of those happen to do just fine around the pylons.

Is that 7.9 sqft figure specific to PM? Based on the fact that a Griffon was never intended to hang on the end of a Mustang, I'd think that number could vary significantly based upon cowling design and configuration. An example would be the "blisters" used on the MAII cowling to accomodate the cam covers. The PM cowling appears to have no such blisters, so although the frontal area might be a bit larger, perhaps it would be more aerodynamic? (not an aerodynamicist) Anyway, I'd guess the 7.9 sqft number is a bit optimistic, but I defer to the experts.

As for the increased displacement, sure it's a good thing, provided you can take advantage of that extra HP. And that was the gist of my second concern - the ability to spin that prop combination fast enough to push 100+" of boost out of that blower (and yes, I know they have the Griffon -74 dual-stage blower in that motor). I believe that's the kind of power they'll likely need from the Griffon to have any chance of running with the Merlins at 130+" MAP. JMHO...

SA

[Smee Again]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

Sat with Bill Rogers in the Pits, arrival day of the debut of Ashley II... Yes the Griffon was chose on that project for a reason... and yes it can and will out-pull a Mouse Merlin Mustang.

- Joseph

OK, I'll bite. Out pull??????

SA

[FuryFan]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

In regards to #38, she's not going to need generous #'s from me, to for-see hot laps in the 515 range.

Is that a prediction that PM is going to turn the fastest lap in Reno history.......a for real, no b.s. prediction?


Kevin

[Sparrow]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

Quote Originally Posted by Idaho_cowpony View Post

Sat with Bill Rogers in the Pits, arrival day of the debut of Ashley II... Yes the Griffon was chose on that project for a reason... and yes it can and will out-pull a Mouse Merlin Mustang.

- Joseph

OK, I'll bite. Out pull??????

SA

Really??!!?? Maybe to Pylon 4 running downhill. If I recall, MAII was running the Griffon 57/58 engine which is a single stage. Gonna run outta woof pretty quick. The 2 stage Griffon is better, however due to the added weight among other things, straight and level with one of the other Mustangs currently running, no way in hell is that gonna "out pull" the Allison rodded Merlin..........

Sparrow

[Dialtapper]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

Regarding what we saw from 232/Hoot last year...
Easily add 40mph to any of last years laps. And we,re getting closer to 'potential'. And that's being very conservative.

I kindly ask Hoot, Rod, or anyone from AA in Grangeville to add their amen. We know it's true.

In regards to #38, she's not going to need generous #'s from me, to for-see hot laps in the 515 range.

Sat with Bill Rogers in the Pits, arrival day of the debut of Ashley II... Yes the Griffon was chose on that project for a reason... and yes it can and will out-pull a Mouse Merlin Mustang.

- Joseph

Joseph, please for the love of God, PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN!!!

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

We could sit and discuss all this frontal area and what not all day. On this new course it's all about making an airplane turn and not bleed off speed.

[Dialtapper]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

You mean the year that it won when none of the modified Mustangs OR the Bear were in the final?

I think that's what a lot of people don't remember, just who did 232 beat? Dreadnought. Now there's a bitching airplane that just bats cleanup and keeps the top dogs honest. But if the only airplane you beat head to head is Dreadnought?

It's like the first Indy 500 after the split from CART, there should be an asterisk by the winners name. Yes you won, but there was no real competition.

[LoveOldPlanes]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

We could sit and discuss all this frontal area and what not all day. On this new course it's all about making an airplane turn and not bleed off speed.

What was that sound.....? Oh yeah, the Voice of Reason! Looks like Team PM might have been thinking about this with the mods you could see on the picture Thom put out from the Flight Tests. I bet they have people polishing the plane down right now to make it even slicker.......

[Sparrow]

Re: A Sea Fury Fan's Lament

In regards to #38, she's not going to need generous #'s from me, to for-see hot laps in the 515 range.

Uuummm, YGTBFSM---- I have only ever seen one Mustang do laps in that area, Dago Red. Precious Metal has accomplished an awful lot and I really hope they do well, but.....

[QUOTE][Joseph, please for the love of God, PUT THE CRACK PIPE DOWN!!!/QUOTE] DITTO!!!

What was that sound.....? Oh yeah, the Voice of Reason! Looks like Team PM might have been thinking about this with the mods you could see on the picture Thom put out from the Flight Tests. I bet they have people polishing the plane down right now to make it even slicker.......

Making them slick certainly helps, however believe me, there is a whole lot more to it than just that. Lots of things that can be done airframe wise to make the engine not work so hard........