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Thread: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Portland, Or
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    Default Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

    Quote Originally Posted by supercub View Post
    Safety is number 1, but what I don't understand is evidently there's several, if not most of the unlimited guys joining the new organization so they can race in Sept. If it was such a safety issue, I would think no one would want to race....I'm sure there's happenings behind the scenes we don't know. All I know, is I hope everyone gets to race, and it's the safest races yet.
    Brian

    This is my take. The issue that Matt Jackson is upset about comes into play when you break the 425mph (ish) mark. The performance gap between the top 5 (ish) and the rest of the field is becoming so dramatic that clearing lap traffic and overtaking cannot be done in a manner that allows competitive and safe racing. Outside of the gold race you have what essentially become parade lap exhibition racing. (this is a generalization I know, there is some great racing that happens in silver and bronze, but it's not the same as Sunday gold)

    So you have 5-7 guys who are out there going as fast as they can with a win or go home attitude, and the rest of the field who are out there to have fun, show off their airplanes and fly low.

    I am willing to bet that when the list of entrants into the new class is published you will find that the majority of them are those planes in the second group. If in fact Voodoo is in that group I suspect its because Button would love a win and Stevo said he is fine with the current rules, which makes sense coming from someone who has only really ever led a Sunday gold race, and never really had to come from 3rd or 4th place to win.


    RARA wants bodies in the stands and doesn't care how it gets them, and unfortunately there are some pilots who just want to fly and dont care what they have to do or who they have to ignore (Jackson) to get there.

    At one point in history the NCAR was about the fastest airplanes in the world going at it. Now it's about selling hot dogs and Tee-shirts.


    My two cents.

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    301

    Default Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

    I have had 24 hours to digest this issue.
    From every angle I hold it, I see the events of the last week would appear to diminish the unlimited group.

    Lyle never would have supported any option that would make RARA both the promoter and the holder of the leash of the sanctioning body.
    John's observation is a huge factor right there....just think of the ramifications of the promoter having say to "go, or no-go" under wind conditions like we had Sunday in 2010. I find that a bit scary. This is said not to disrespect RARA, because I admire RARA's effort to promote air racing, but the conflict-of-interest factor makes for a crooked path to follow.

    There will be a high price to pay for this fracture. Whether the true reasons are political, or safety, or a combination of both.

    So, lets pay respects to the 5 other classes of aircraft that race. Let’s not forget these competitors and my hope is they all see more fan support from broader segment of race fans. No matter if the unlimiteds fly in a parade, or not.

    Planecrazy2 lifts a cold one to the heavens and sheds a tear for Unlimited race of the century in 2013, that might have been…..cheers.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

    Quote Originally Posted by planecrazy2 View Post
    I have had 24 hours to digest this issue.
    From every angle I hold it, I see the events of the last week would appear to diminish the unlimited group.



    John's observation is a huge factor right there....just think of the ramifications of the promoter having say to "go, or no-go" under wind conditions like we had Sunday in 2010. I find that a bit scary. This is said not to disrespect RARA, because I admire RARA's effort to promote air racing, but the conflict-of-interest factor makes for a crooked path to follow.

    There will be a high price to pay for this fracture. Whether the true reasons are political, or safety, or a combination of both.

    So, lets pay respects to the 5 other classes of aircraft that race. Let’s not forget these competitors and my hope is they all see more fan support from broader segment of race fans. No matter if the unlimiteds fly in a parade, or not.

    Planecrazy2 lifts a cold one to the heavens and sheds a tear for Unlimited race of the century in 2013, that might have been…..cheers.

    Had they simply just raced the other classes and let the unlimited class "stand down" I would gladly have attended. I very much enjoy the other classes. But this end run to get around the decision the class made rather than attempt to work the issues out has me sick to my stomach.


    I realize that there is probably a lot of stuff going on that I have no idea about, but this is what it looks like from the outside.

    I still have hope that it will be worked out, but as it stands right now I will not be making the trip down there for the first time in 25 years.

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    San Diego, CA USA
    Posts
    76

    Default Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

    Quote Originally Posted by flyingjibus View Post
    This is my take. The issue that Matt Jackson is upset about comes into play when you break the 425mph (ish) mark. The performance gap between the top 5 (ish) and the rest of the field is becoming so dramatic that clearing lap traffic and overtaking cannot be done in a manner that allows competitive and safe racing. Outside of the gold race you have what essentially become parade lap exhibition racing. (this is a generalization I know, there is some great racing that happens in silver and bronze, but it's not the same as Sunday gold)

    So you have 5-7 guys who are out there going as fast as they can with a win or go home attitude, and the rest of the field who are out there to have fun, show off their airplanes and fly low.

    I am willing to bet that when the list of entrants into the new class is published you will find that the majority of them are those planes in the second group. If in fact Voodoo is in that group I suspect its because Button would love a win and Stevo said he is fine with the current rules, which makes sense coming from someone who has only really ever led a Sunday gold race, and never really had to come from 3rd or 4th place to win.

    RARA wants bodies in the stands and doesn't care how it gets them, and unfortunately there are some pilots who just want to fly and dont care what they have to do or who they have to ignore (Jackson) to get there.

    At one point in history the NCAR was about the fastest airplanes in the world going at it. Now it's about selling hot dogs and Tee-shirts.

    My two cents.
    This is my suspicion as well, very well put.

    Between the stand-down of the Blues and T-Birds due to the manufactured faux crisis called sequestration, the resultant continued cancellation of airshows, threats to close down hundreds of towers, constant political attacks on business and commercial aviation, extortion of de-facto user fee's from Oshkosh and other events, and now this, I am simply unable to effectively communicate the sadness and sense of loss that I feel - there just aren't the right words and it seems to be accelerating with no sense it will slow down.

    At some point, we each, as pilots or spectators, have to decide where the line is for us, and whether or not we are going to cross it. Well for me the line is here - if the Unlimiteds are calling foul, and the response is to formulate Unlimited-Lite rather than address the concerns of those most in the know and at most risk, then my time and my dollars can be better invested to fund my own aviation addiction.

    RARA doesn't know me from Adam, and probably won't miss the money that would have been spent on my tickets, but I am no longer willing to just accept these slips towards mediocrity and lessening of safety. I see this too in my professional life as a Reliability, Maintainability and Safety Engineer - and I have had enough.

    It may be a tiny little stand, but it is mine.

    'Gimp

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    148

    Default Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Jackson View Post

    Please define most! I think you are misinformed on the actual numbers of people that have signed up. I think it is still the policy of this organization to represent the majorty concensus and that consensus says to stand down in the interest of safety. I can't be more plain then that. With all the false information going around time will certainly tell if we resolve the issues at hand. We have two months and a few days to remedy what we all agree is a serious concern.

    Matt J
    Matt,

    First I would like to say thank you for taking the time to come on this board and provide us with some much appreciated information. I am still hopeful (perhaps a fools hope, but hope nonetheless) that you will get that chance at a championship flying Strega.

    There is a lot of misinformation out there right now, and I'm sure I don't know about most of it. After contacting RARA yesterday just to hear what they had to say, it sure seems like they are scrambling over there to put something together. But at some point the group of pilots that are willing to fly in spite of the "stand down" is going to dry up, if it hasn't already. I hope that reason will prevail in this case and all of this will become irrelevant in the very near future.

    With that in mind, I had a couple of questions I was hoping Matt or anyone else for that matter might be able to shed some light on.

    We haven't heard anything out of the Rod Lewis camp since all of this boiled over. I remember Hoot being one of those pilots that was critical of deadlines so I was wondering what their status is if we know.

    I'm also a little confused about the status of Precious Metal. RARA lists them as a participant in the new class but on the PM Facebook page it says that they are in support of the stand down.

    Last, is anyone else surprised that Tiger agreed to participate as the new class president? I know that I am very likely forming an opinion about that with less than 5% of the information, but it just seemed like a strange fit.

    As an eternal optimist when it comes to air racing, I will continue to look forward with a huge amount of excitement. I can't wait to get there and enjoy SIX classes of air racing. I hope some of the unlimited owners are optimists as well and will continue to prep their planes for September even though we have hit a bump in the road.

    Cheers to all and see you in September!



    Tyler

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Reno, Nevada
    Posts
    1,793

    Default Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

    Well heres my 2 cents worth, from a fan perspective.

    There are a lot of events that I miss during the September air race weekend do to the fact I truly enjoy what RARA puts on.

    However I have to admit, seeing and hearing the unlimiteds is 70% of the reason for going.

    This year with the 50th our group has designed a special little 50th Anniversary keepsake we were planning on handing out, cost will be $450.00 (glad we waited before consigning order to vendor). I had planned on taking the entire week off and buying the season seat and pit passes (here too glad I have waited to purchase).

    The reality is that if there are no warbirds, then I will save my vacation, work and attend a event I have long waited to see
    http://www.sscc.us/

    Hopefully things get ironed out here real soon before people start making different plans and commitments.
    Last edited by Desertdawg; 06-18-2013 at 09:31 AM.

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Portland, Or
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    1,200

    Default Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerByPackard View Post

    Last, is anyone else surprised that Tiger agreed to participate as the new class president? I know that I am very likely forming an opinion about that with less than 5% of the information, but it just seemed like a strange fit.
    I was at first, but after thinking about it...

    Tiger was effectively done, and putting Strega out to pasture. Money and the chance for someone very deserving of a win to get one convinced him to let her out to play once more. We are in the final years of seeing modified WWII era piston planes going 500 mph, and Tiger knows it. This move allows real racing to fade out with Strega as the undisputed king of the ring, wile preserving an event that pays homage to the glory days that he was part of. What better person is there to preside over that? He has the knowledge and experience to be an asset to this new exhibition race, and it will also allow him to continue to be relevant in the "Sport"

    I dont mean this to sound as harsh as it may. I respect Tiger immensely, but pilots have ego's , it part of the deal. This feeds his nicely.

  8. #78

    Default Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

    I think when it all comes down to it and people chill a little ON ALL SIDES it will all work out and we will continue to race.

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Reno
    Posts
    233

    Default Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

    I get into it pretty heavy with my lawyer "brother-in-law". He is not a racer, doesn't get racing..never will but he understands how the courtroom works. Very dangerous! He thinks you should be able to take your family out to the races and not expect a plane to fall into your lap! What he doesn't understand is racing is dangerous. It says "Experimental" inside the cockpit for a reason! As members of the racing community we understand and accept these risks. I support the stand down 100%. Lawyers, insurance companies, promoters and gov't agencies should not be controlling decisions behind the cockpit in racing conditions! We live in a "gamer" society where the only risk is losing electricity. Long live motocross and big mtn free skiing where you make the decisions and deal with the consequences! Hope we see real unlimited racing this Sept., not limited unlimited parade lap exhibition style racing.

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Prairie, Idaho
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    773

    Default Re: Unlimited Saftey Stand Down

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Bill Kelso View Post
    I think when it all comes down to it and people chill a little ON ALL SIDES it will all work out and we will continue to race.
    Pretty sure Wild Bill is correct here...

    If we can overcome '11, we can overcome PRS '13

    - Joseph

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