Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

In mid `44 Nazi V1 cruise missiles were raining down on London, killing thousands..

Those missiles cruised in at low level, doing ~400mph,
& Tempests were best at intercepting them, catching 800+..saving thousands..

However Mustangs & Griffon Spitfires were boosted & polished up, using 150 grade fuel..
.. to increase speed at Reno-type altitudes.. see graph.. below..

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/spit14+25lbs.jpg

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

The Sabre was driving a larger prop than any US fighter, at 14ft diameter..

Ron Dennis commented..

"All our machines were fitted with Rotol airscrews
when the maximum rpm were increased to 3,850
from 3,700 & boost to +13lbs from +11,
as the DeHavilland airscrew could not absorb the
added power & more than once shed a blade,
with somewhat detrimental effects..."

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

J.A.W... it absolutely warms my heart to see someone in their "second decade" with an interest in history, particularly, the old hardware and those who flew them!

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Thanks Wayne, I respect the can do determination & problem solving shown by Reno racers like-wise..

& Bob Spurdle was my mother's great uncle..

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Here's a link that shows how the Kiwis are getting on with their Tempest Mk 2
[Bristol Centaurus powered, like Sea Fury]..

http://www.pioneeraero.co.nz/project/hawker-tempest-mkii/

They are progressing more meaningfully than the Brits have with Kermit Weeks' Mk 5..

So, maybe - since he cant fly it there anyhow..

He should get the Kiwis to get his Sabre powered Tempest in the air too..

& a Sabre-Fury for 'air-testing'.. at Reno, of course..

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

For a view of the Hawker built Sabre-Fury, cut to 16:00 in this vid..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYKPcOOuskU

The Sabre made ~25mph over the Centaurus & Griffon powered Fury prototypes..

[kiwiracefan]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Its quite cool to see the tempest project here, and Kermits one too. a small nugget of info, Kermit's Tempest actually served in 486 NZ squadron of the RAF, so it has a pretty big kiwi link, much like his P-51D currently painted as cripes a mighty, is an ex-RNZAF mustang that also has the honor of being NZ's first civilian warbird

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Indeed, Kiwiracefan..

Kermit Weeks also has the prototype Tempest Mk 2 - similar to that being restored in NZ.

The bloody Poms [incredibly] scrapped EVERY Sabre Tempest & Typhoon in the UK!

There is one Typhoon [saved due to being in the US for evaluation testing at Wright AFB..]

& belatedly they cobbled together a Tempest Mk 5 out of scrapped parts..

Kermit Weeks' ex-486 [NZ] Sabre Tempest [de-facto Mk 6 ? - it now has Mk 2 wings]

was, like the Mk 2s, not in Britain, being used as an instructional airframe in Europe,

so survived..

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

The USAAF tested a Tempest [Report No Eng-47-1658-C, 4 Dec 1943] & concluded..

"The Tempest V should prove to be a very excellent fighter airplane.
It is easy to fly & exhibits very desirable fighter characteristics coupled
with excellent performance."

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

The Luftwaffe also tested a Tempest, & concurred with the USAAF view..

H-W Lerche wrote;

"But there was no doubt about this one : the Tempest was an impressive,
highly powered aeroplane by any standards.
With little fuel & lightly loaded it had the outstanding power loading of
only 2kg/hp or, to put it another way, each hp had to accelerate only
about 4.5lb of gross weight."

"The Tempest was a remarkable aircraft also regarding its flying characteristics.
I felt really good in its cockpit...after 2 flights it had gained my confidence
& I enjoyed flying this fast fighter."

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

& From a Kiwi Spitfire ace's viewpoint [E.D. Mackie, again]..

"The Spitfire was a great machine, & after 805 hours on the various marks
I grew really used to it, but it did not take me long to realize that the
Tempest was far superior in speed & just about as good in manoeuvrability,
once you learned how to fly it...they could be thrown around the sky like
a piece of paper."

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

So, a quick squiz [literature search] at the British Archive shows the manuals/tools

list required for Napier Sabre overhaul/service are available,

but which US outfit is comfortably au-fait with

the Limey nuts 'n' bolts approach to engines

[I know there are quite a few old Norton fans Stateside]

& would be willing

to take the Sabre flight readiness job on?

[MIKE NIXON]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

The engine is a good mix of the Merlin, Griffon and Centuraus engines. The project would be much the same as the BMW-801 or DB-601 engines. Not having to translate the manuals is a major plus. Tools and hardware are in house.
Dividing the engine into the major sections and building notebooks on each section would be next.
Designing tooling for the internals would take time and $.
Having the needed parts, seals and gaskets made would set the timeline forward.
The actual work would be challenging as the manuals are based on having the factory tooling and production lines in place.
Test running with the prop and controls is the last part. Building the mounts and the controls is just following the dots untill everything is conected and tested.
The first start sounds like a big deal but the assembly and double checking of all the bits is the big deal.
The cost of all that is time and materials. In hours I bet we are looking at 3,000 easy.
Materials and tools 35K to 50K if no problems with the engine.
Will it happen? I don't have an opening for at least two years with the exotic engines, but who knows then. I have a list of things to do going forward a few years. We have a crew of over 30 Mechanics producing 20+ engines a year so the possibilities are amazing.
Keep em Flying is both our goal and mission statment.

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Thanks so much for the excellent reply Mike.

Such an encouraging 'can do' attitude, that's real positive American spirit..

The British view was... 'Impossible...& we'd need a million pounds, to even get our
hands dirty - doing a feasibility study'..

Next question, does Kermit Weeks view this forum?

[440_Magnum]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

I've always read that the limit to racing the Bristol Centauruswas galling problems with the piston/valve/cylinder assembly when you started pushing more heat through the system at elevated power output for extended periods. The sleeve valve actuation mechanism isn't really all that complicated or unreliable, but getting the piston to be able to expand without trying to seize to the sleeve, and the sleeve to expand without trying to seize to the bore... both at the same time... was a trick that Napier never solved- I believe the history is that the Brit government stepped in and basically directed Bristol to transfer their technology (whether metallurgical, manufacturing, or design or all 3 I do not know) to get the Sabre up and running reliably. 'Stiff upper lip, chaps, we do have a war on, eh what.' A 'hot rodded' Sabre? I have NO doubt that "it could be done." I have every doubt that it could be done on any sort of sane budget and have enough performance edge to beat the relatively well-understood (and yet still moody) hot-rodded Merlins, Griffons, P&W's, and 3350s.

Of course that sort of challenge is exactly why people get excited about ideas like this anyway. The engine mix has been pretty stagnant for a while, with Merlins and radials (and mostly 3350s at that) trading the win going back... forever. I think that's part of the reason Precious Metal has generated such interest. The "its different" factor, and seeing an "ts different" program being executed very well rather than haphazardly.

I love "interesting" engines. And not to say that a Merlin or radial is NOT interesting (they are), but the H-planform Sabre layout (with sleeve valves to boot) takes it to another level. Nothing will ever be as balls-out weird as the Napier Deltic diesel was/is, but the Sabre comes close! ;-)