Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

[J.A.W.]

Kermit Weeks has a very rare [1 of 2 in existence] Hawker Tempest Mk V undergoing [slow] restoration in Britain.

He does have a number of Napier Sabre engines to suit.

Maybe he could slot a Sabre mill into a Sea Fury airframe & run it at Reno?

Hawker built a couple of Furies powered by Sabres & got ~485mph @ 17,000ft.

The Sabre 7 with ADI was rated at 3,500hp/3,850rpm on 70.6 in boost..from 2240cid..how would a hot-rod version go?

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/Aircraft_Engines_of_the_World_Napier_Sabre.pdf

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

For those who have never seen or heard a Tempest or Napier Sabre..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKq51LdJ-ZU

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Anyone fancy going to Africa for a fishing trip?

I recall reading that Hawker/Napier/RAF did the tropical type testing for the Tempest Mk 6 in Sudan, & when they`d finished..
..they simply dumped the unused spare Sabre mills [still grease-packed in crates] off a pier into the Nile [near Khartoum]..

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Just wanted to say welcome to the Hangar, Enjoy! Annnd, I just noticed that you're in Australia.. I think we have a few of you other side of the world guys here.. One of the things that amazes me most about the Internet is how is shrinks the planet!

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Thanks for the warm welcome man, & its a fine forum you have going here..

[kiwiracefan]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Id hate to think what trying to hot-rod a sabre would be like, that big H 24 sleeve valve monster would be a nightmare.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Thanks for the warm welcome man, & its a fine forum you have going here..

Many thanks for the support.. for the most part, she's a pretty civilized beast.. from time to time, drawn off course by one or the other member... sometimes, even myself... dread the thought! But we do try to keep things to a dull roar, most of the time..

You Aussies and NZ guys are the main reason I keep your part of the world's IP ranges open to the server.. UNFORTUNATELY, much of the bad IT traffic via open proxy sources comes from within the APNIC range, which, unfortunately, puts your part of the world into the same system as China and all the rest of the wild wild west of the INTERNET.. Lots of bandits within that block! But we pay the price for server security, watch it closely and keep it open to our friends from the "DEEEEP south!"

I think you guys have the classic aviation bug just about as bad as anywhere in the world!

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Cheers, Wayne.. for letting us down-under types have a go then, & yep we do like the ol`warbirds way down here..

& Kiwiracefan, have you checked out the cut-away Sabre on show in NZ?

If you can visualise x4 flat 6 Porsche mills en-bloc, then it aint such a 'monster'..
..or a nightmare, since software similar in principle to porting 2-strokes should give a clue to sleeve valve tuning..

& note that it is an oversquare mill..

Kiwi combat pilots loved `em, too, E.Mackie Tempest ace & top scoring RNZAF fighter pilot reckoned that..

"The harder you flew them the better they went".

& since Sabres passed military acceptance tests at 3,500hp on +20lbs boost, but were bench/dyno tested on up to +45lbs,
then they ought to be up for it, esp`with 21st century engine management systems eh?

[al baby]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Anyone fancy going to Africa for a fishing trip?

I recall reading that Hawker/Napier/RAF did the tropical type testing for the Tempest Mk 6 in Sudan, & when they`d finished..
..they simply dumped the unused spare Sabre mills [still grease-packed in crates] off a pier into the Nile [near Khartoum]..

Ever been to Khartoum?

They have things in the water there that are as big as the Salties up in the N.T. Think I'll pass and let one of you blokes do the 'Hold my beer and watch this' thing. Or maybe we can find a Palmie willing to fill the role.

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

From 'High Speed Flight' P. 61; Re Sabre performance..

"Cooling & supercharging were the limitations to performance, & when these limits were absent, in bench runs, the Sabre produced phenomenal amounts of power, easily generating 3,750hp & capable of being pushed to higher limits.

These ratings were never realized in service, for political & industrial reasons...Rolls-Royce was still trying to replace the Sabre with the Griffon, which did not match the Sabre's late 1941 in-service rating until 1945.

The Air Ministry's controller of research noted...' I have the uneasy feeling that this [Sabre program] is suffering through all the propaganda regarding the Griffon'..."

That rated Sabre 7 with ADI was making 1.56hp/cu.in; BMEP of 321lb/sq.in.; weighing 0.731lbs/hp; frontal area of 8.8sq.ft.

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Dont worry about those Nile Crocodiles..couple of tuna bombs should see those scaly bastards off..
& a quid or 2 in the pocket of the local pest control shouldn't be too big an ask, eh?

Get Nat Geo/Monster Energy to sponsor the trip, get Bindi on board, why not?

[Apteryx]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Kermit Weeks has a very rare [1 of 2 in existence] Hawker Tempest Mk V undergoing [slow] restoration in Britain.

He does have a number of Napier Sabre engines to suit.

Maybe he could slot a Sabre mill into a Sea Fury airframe & run it at Reno?

He SHOULD have loaned one to the Napier-Heston Racer project....

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Yeah, well, maybe so, but a sturdy, well sorted Fury airframe might be a better bet for air-testing a Sabre..

..for the 1st time in ~55 years - rather than risking his super-rare Tempest V or even the Heston rep..

..perhaps the N-Heston crew could borrow an ex-Shackleton contra-prop Griffon to give their test-pilot 1/2 a chance of actually flying it?

[Unless THEY want a fishing expedition..]

Apteryrx, do you know if any modelling [virtual or scale-flight] was done on the flying characteristics of the N-Heston?

[J.A.W.]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

& Kiwiracefan, with a piston speed of 3,048 ft/min & output per per piston area of 7.44 hp/sq.in..

.. the Sabre 7 wasn't an over-stressed 'monster' at its rated 3,500 hp..

.. & with 21st century tribological/metallurgical techniques..

[albeit - the Sabre was built with Vandervell shell-type crankshaft plain bearings..]

The sleeve valves should work even better..plenty of room in the combustion chamber for D.I. without incandescent poppet valves crowding it..

[kiwiracefan]

Re: Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre hot-rod?.

Its not the fact its 24 cylinders, its more the sleeve valves and the gears to run them properly, i have read several accounts of sleeve valves needing to be critically monitored, im currently reading the 486 squadron history and the ground crews all said the Sabre was a brilliant engine, but needed to be very carefully looked after