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  • #16
    Re: September Fate

    I just like the diversity of Formula One design since the Goodyear days at Cleveland. The Loving-Wayne design was unique enough that even though it wasn't very successful, it has always been intriguing. And I'd love to see September Fate 'validate' the design theory!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: September Fate

      Thanks to the crew that brought this beautiful aircraft to Reno this year.
      It was a real upper so see it and watch it fly....
      Good job! And good luck in the future....

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: September Fate

        S.F. is a work of art, IMHO.

        And I'm looking forward to better speeds next year. This year's speeds were very impressive for a new aircraft.

        I'm curious, too, about the airfoil. Looking at the photos, it seems clear that the aft portion (of the airfoil) has quite of bit of reflex to it.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: September Fate

          Originally posted by Bob View Post
          NACA scoop instead of a snorkel for the intake air. Nice
          Hmmm.... I've always read that NACA inlets don't generate the pressure rise that pitot type scoops do. Which translates to NACA scoops (in general) being poor for engine air intake, but good for coolers and other air inlets where a fairly constant volume flow independent of pressure rise is desirable. I wonder if it was a drag/power increase trade and lower drag won?

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          • #20
            Re: September Fate

            Wow, very impressive photos of that unique plane!

            Best regards,
            Florian

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: September Fate

              Originally posted by FlyKidChris View Post
              I'm curious, too, about the airfoil. Looking at the photos, it seems clear that the aft portion (of the airfoil) has quite of bit of reflex to it.
              noticed it too - very large pressure recovery on that airfoil

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: September Fate

                Hi all

                Thank you a ton for the interest and keep the comments coming! Its great to hear what other people think, especially when there are ideas that might make us go faster!

                Neal - thank you again for the great pictures!!!

                Yep fresh air to the mask! It helps quite a bit as the cockpit is quite small and the canopy is sealed to prevent drag. It works, as we proved it with an inflight smoke situation during a flight test. I was glad to have it that day!!!

                Big_Jim - Lovings love..... funny thing is that I had not heard about Neal Loving until part way into the build another friend mentioned the same thing. Since then I have read Mr. Lovings book and have tried to learn about his work. He was an amazing pioneer in the early days of homebuilding and his work should be recognized! Even though it was coincidence, I too would love to prove the design! Read his book if you ever get the chance!

                Idaho Cowpony - Not quite regarding 9 months on the build. The basic airframe was built very quickly but over 2 years to finish the product. Still very fast for a new design build!!! Also we are a little lighter than the 650 you quoted. Guess that I should quit drinking beer and lighten up?!

                Bob and 440_Magnum - NACA scoop.... You are spot on! Sometimes even in a new design and computer simulation some things don't work as well in reality. Expect a new carb inlet at a theatre near you! (or at least reno next year) I believe that we lost a ton of power by trying the NACA even though it was less drag.

                Flykidchris and shadow - its true... Very reflexed and critical airfoil. It fly's beautifully though and we did put it through a stall test series to find its slow end characteristics! When its done flying, its done flying!

                Thank you all again for the great support!!!!
                Brian

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: September Fate

                  Brian, thanks for the very informative post.

                  I'm certainly no expert, but things that interest me stick in my memory. Back in the early days of Mike Brown building up September Fury there was a whole rash of experimentation with Sea Fury air intakes and air flow in general- things like trying to close the "gills" behind the exhaust stacks and relying solely on the air around the stacks themselves. Both 232 and at least one of the other Sea Furies (either 'Bad Attitude' or 'Riff Raff') installed Skyraider-style above cowl inlets. Ultimately the Dreadnought-style inlet (which itself traces back to the F2G) proved to work the best, so 232, Furias, and Stewart Dawson's beautiful 'Spirit of Texas' all use them to this date. I don't think anyone tried a NACA on a Sea Fury, but in the bench-racing discussions that followed on this forum and others, other examples of NACA carb inlets cropped up and I remember reading about the constant-volume / low pressure rise nature of the NACA inlet above a certain airspeed and now that's inherently not-so-good for feeding a piston engine.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: September Fate

                    Thank you for providing this photographer with a truly remarkable subject, Brian. Good luck with your development of #13 over the next year. This is the most exciting project to appear in a long time.

                    And Thanks for being willing to come on to AAFO to talk about it all. A lot of us Race fans are really interested in this...

                    Neal

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: September Fate

                      Originally posted by IF1#13 View Post

                      Idaho Cowpony - Not quite regarding 9 months on the build. The basic airframe was built very quickly but over 2 years to finish the product. Still very fast for a new design build!!! Also we are a little lighter than the 650 you quoted. Guess that I should quit drinking beer and lighten up?!
                      Mr. Reberry,

                      I stand corrected. Now, curious just what did you weigh in at?

                      Joseph

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: September Fate

                        Originally posted by IF1#13 View Post
                        Hi all

                        Thank you a ton for the interest and keep the comments coming! Its great to hear what other people think, especially when there are ideas that might make us go faster!

                        Neal - thank you again for the great pictures!!!

                        Yep fresh air to the mask! It helps quite a bit as the cockpit is quite small and the canopy is sealed to prevent drag. It works, as we proved it with an inflight smoke situation during a flight test. I was glad to have it that day!!!

                        Big_Jim - Lovings love..... funny thing is that I had not heard about Neal Loving until part way into the build another friend mentioned the same thing. Since then I have read Mr. Lovings book and have tried to learn about his work. He was an amazing pioneer in the early days of homebuilding and his work should be recognized! Even though it was coincidence, I too would love to prove the design! Read his book if you ever get the chance!

                        Idaho Cowpony - Not quite regarding 9 months on the build. The basic airframe was built very quickly but over 2 years to finish the product. Still very fast for a new design build!!! Also we are a little lighter than the 650 you quoted. Guess that I should quit drinking beer and lighten up?!

                        Bob and 440_Magnum - NACA scoop.... You are spot on! Sometimes even in a new design and computer simulation some things don't work as well in reality. Expect a new carb inlet at a theatre near you! (or at least reno next year) I believe that we lost a ton of power by trying the NACA even though it was less drag.

                        Flykidchris and shadow - its true... Very reflexed and critical airfoil. It fly's beautifully though and we did put it through a stall test series to find its slow end characteristics! When its done flying, its done flying!

                        Thank you all again for the great support!!!!
                        Brian
                        Brian, you weren't the only one that tried a NACA duct carb inlet with less than desirable results. One of the biplane guys spent most of one night putting a traditional ram air tube back in his cowl after the NACA duct didn't prove itself on the course.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: September Fate

                          Originally posted by 440_Magnum View Post
                          at least one of the other Sea Furies (either 'Bad Attitude' or 'Riff Raff') installed Skyraider-style above cowl inlets.
                          Riff Raff used the Skyraider intake in 2004, but I'm pretty sure they removed it before the end of the week.

                          Neal - great shots, especially that second one from slightly behind.

                          Beautiful airplane.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by ignomini; 10-03-2012, 01:12 PM.
                          No pixels were harmed, honest.

                          http://www.ignomini.com
                          http://www.pbase.com/ignomini

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: September Fate

                            Certainly no aerodynamics or A&P wizard by any stretch. Just an observation from Home Pylon. One shared by others on my crew. The A/C seem to exhibit slight but discernible porpoising effect while passing Home. Thought initially I was seeing things but several judges approached me asking the same question.

                            Seemed to occur moreso when in or near dirty air as trail or overtaking. Maybe nothing at all but was enough at first to have my crew watching closely as she passed Home Pylon.

                            Interested in thoughts...or someone telling me I am all wet!

                            Cheers
                            Owen Ashurst
                            Performer Air Boss - Reno Air Races
                            http://airbossone.com/

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: September Fate

                              Hi All

                              Thanks again for the interest and ideas!

                              Idaho_cowpony - Empty is less than endeavor! Including a starter, dual electrical systems, 3 fuel tanks, and dual fuel pumps! Im reluctant to say the actual number but its very close to 600 empty.

                              Race5 - Thanks for the bipe info. We were very close early in the week to do the same and I even had the hole saw ready! Guess we should have but plan on doing some further testing in the next few weeks that will include a new scoop! I'll keep you posted.

                              Air Judge - Thank you so much for the inputs and observations! That is the kind of stuff that the racers need to hear!!! It was not noticeable in the cockpit, but you are not the first to bring it up. I guarantee you that it is one of the first things we will be looking at before the snow fly's!!!!

                              I will do my best to keep everyone posted as we progress through the year but I love the input!!
                              Thank you all!
                              Brian

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: September Fate

                                IF1#13,

                                First off, you have a truly inspirational plane. Very attractive, clearly rather clever and well developed, and certainly appears to be finely built. And you had a fine showing at your first go at racing her. Congrads

                                I realize that racers certainly have the right to keep the details of their planes to themselves. That said, I'd like to take the chance anyway and ask about your current engine and future plans for same. It was mentioned that your current engine is closer to stock than some of the high gold racers.

                                Highly developed F1 engines are known to be pushing rpms well into the 4000s. +/-150hp has been thrown around as a ballpark for these engines.

                                -Would you mind offering us some insight as to the power level (rpms?)your engine is producing at race power this year as compared to what you presume the power levels are on some of your competitors planes?

                                -Would you mind giving us a preview of what modifications, engine wise, or otherwise, you are currently considering/planning for next year(other than the ram air intake mod mentioned)?

                                I wish you the best for next year and hope to see you climb the rankings. I have a feeling your competitors are concerned about you...

                                George

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