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Thread: Patriot Demo Team

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Boise, Idaho
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    150

    Default Re: Patriot Demo Team

    "If your point is, "there shouldn't be an airshow at Reno because it induces extra risk," then that is a spear to throw at RARA, not at the performers. The Patriots were hired to execute a performance, which they did. RARA knew exactly what the Patriot performance included when they booked them. They were perfectly aware of the risks and perceptions of risk involved, and could have taken steps to change the performance if they wanted to."


    Don't put words in my mouth Randy, my point was and is very clear and I've never stated or inferred "there shouldn't be an airshow at Reno because it induces extra risk"

    "The Patriots were hired to execute a performance, which they did. RARA knew exactly what the Patriot performance included when they booked them"

    Really? I'm pretty sure that they were not hired to perform a routine that has "knock it off occurs now" written into it.

    JC
    Last edited by JCP; 09-20-2012 at 11:03 AM.

  2. #22
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    Mar 2002
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    Oklahoma
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    Default Re: Patriot Demo Team

    Quote Originally Posted by JCP View Post
    Don't put words in my mouth Randy, my point was and is very clear and I've never stated or inferred "there shouldn't be an airshow at Reno because it induces extra risk"
    Okay, that's fair -- I apologize for incorrectly summarizing what I thought your position was.

    You think that the Patriots should have changed their show for this event, then?

    Quote Originally Posted by JCP View Post
    Really? I'm pretty sure that they were not hired to perform a routine that has "knock it off occurs now" written into it.
    I agree: the Patriots don't have that written into their show, and that's not what RARA hired. The KIO was based on an FAA guy who made a on-the-spot call about a corner cut which later proved to be false in the post-flight debrief.

    The system worked exactly as it should, IMHO. FAA observer made his call based on what he saw real time, and judgment was made after gathering all the information and assessing it at zero knots and one G.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Nashville
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    Default Re: Patriot Demo Team

    Agree to disagree.

    Now kiss and make up.

    You know what they say about arguments on the internet, nobody really cares and it makes you both look silly.

  4. #24
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    Mar 2002
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    Pacific Northwest
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    Default Re: Patriot Demo Team

    Quote Originally Posted by flyboycpa View Post
    Agree to disagree.

    Now kiss and make up.

    You know what they say about arguments on the internet, nobody really cares and it makes you both look silly.
    FWIW, I have been enjoying this discussion by two pilots of high performance aircraft. It's been polite, IMHO and both have shown respect to the other. It's an informative discussion and is exactly the way I like to see "discussions", particularly, disagreements take place.
    Wayne Sagar
    "Pusher of Electrons"

  5. #25
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    Mar 2002
    Location
    Oklahoma
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    Default Re: Patriot Demo Team

    Quote Originally Posted by AAFO_WSagar View Post
    FWIW, I have been enjoying this discussion by two pilots of high performance aircraft. It's been polite, IMHO and both have shown respect to the other. It's an informative discussion and is exactly the way I like to see "discussions", particularly, disagreements take place.
    I agree...it hasn't been an 'argument'. We can absoultely disagree, and none of it is personal.

    I certainly respect John-Curtiss' perspective and that he has infinitely more experience than I do flying/building/wrenching/racing warbirds.

    This is no different than any other spirited friday-night discussion between airplane people over drinks. After all, isn't that the whole point of a 'discussion' forum?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Boise, Idaho
    Posts
    150

    Default Re: Patriot Demo Team

    I totally agree that none of this stuff is personal or argumentative.

    I happen to love Air Show Aerobatics and I don't think that there is a better civilian Jet Team out there than the Patriots. Well....until we see the Horseman in F-86's!

    Like the man said, there is nothing wrong with a little "discussion" when it's civil. I think this has been just that, a very civil discussion.

    JC

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Fairfield, CA
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    180

    Default Re: Patriot Demo Team

    I for one, know that I have been privileged to listen to this discussion.

    Randy, John, I suppose that the best thing I can do, is to beg you guys to keep airing it out here; regardless of the differences coming in your future discussions.

    I have the Highest respect for you both, and that only increases as you both continue to share your minds with us.

    Thanks, and don't shy away please!
    Chuck Roundy

    P.S. I do get that this particular issue is mostly worked out between you two already.....
    Last edited by C_roundy; 09-21-2012 at 04:20 AM. Reason: added an s to discussion
    Carbon is groovy man...

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Napa Ca
    Posts
    1,257

    Default Re: Patriot Demo Team

    Here are a couple pics of the low pass.





    Will

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Boron,CA
    Posts
    319

    Default Re: Patriot Demo Team

    For some of the Russian demo pilots that's practically cruising altitude!!

    Kevin

  10. #30

    Default Re: Patriot Demo Team

    I don't think its totally fair to blame the Patriots. RARA must have known what they were getting. I know that circumstances were different this year, but I think that if RARA had specifically asked them to fly a little higher they would've and all controversy/risk could have been avoided.

    It's not like they haven't done it before...The picture below was taken 9/16/2011 from ground level in the box seats.




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