F-14's siezed

[sierra fox]

Anyone else hear about this?

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access/1228226441.html?dids=1228226441:1228226441&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Mar+7%2C+2007&author=Maeve+Reston&pub=Los+Angeles+Times&edition=&startpage=B.1&desc=4+F-14+jets+are+seized+at+area+fields

[64chrysler300]

Re: F-14's siezed

Yeah....over on the WIX board. http://warbirdinformationexchange.or...ic.php?t=11687

Sombody screwed the pooch big time. After all the finger pointing is over I wonder who will be left holding the bag on this....the actual guilty party or some scape goat.

[HiredBitSlinger]

Re: F-14's siezed

Yeah....over on the WIX board. http://warbirdinformationexchange.or...ic.php?t=11687

....the actual guilty party or some scape goat.

Shouldn't that be "scrap goat".

[AirDOGGe]

Re: F-14's siezed

It's on the aero-news.net site too.

I didn't know Planes of Fame was one of the confiscated F-14 owners. Was Mr. Hinton getting ideas for a new racer for the revamped jet races?

[Matt Jackson]

Re: F-14's siezed

Leave it to our great government minds in homeland security. We can't keep our war heros from falling out of bed, but we can certainly chase down outdated Tomcat canopy parts and claim they are being sent to the Iranians to support their vast fleet of war planes. Its our government at its finest hour. Perhaps we should have not sold the planes to Iran in the first place. If Iran is anything like the Iraq war machine, what in the world do we have to fear. Three canopies!!! come on!!! It just another ploy to show how on top of things we are. We should be concerned about the **** that comes across the border and not a few airplane parts going out. Totally a waste of time and our tax money.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: F-14's siezed

Perhaps we should have not sold the planes to Iran in the first place. If Iran is anything like the Iraq war machine, what in the world do we have to fear.

Matt, while I agree with your sentiments on the overall situation of the F-14 witch hunt, you're off base with both of these statements.

The Tomcats were sold to a "friendly" Iran during a completely different middle east political landscape. It's easy to make such a statement 25 years after the fact and after significant changes in Iran's leadership and alliances during that time. Hindsight is....you know.

Iran's war machine, in fact, is a completely different animal than Iraq's. Don't confuse the fact that the two are neighbors and previously enemies with having any relation to their orders of battle, equipment, or capabilities. They're very different ethnically, politically, and militarily.

The fact of the matter is that I'd rather have IRIAF Tomcats sitting on the ramp unable to fly than having to shoot them down and give them the off chance that they might score a hit on a US fighter.

[SpinB]

Re: F-14's siezed

I've read the Iranians have actually managed to keep a few Tomcats viable enough to keep the Iraqis at bay. If the stories I've read are true,
they've got them so skittish, if the IAF launched a sortie and got lit up with AWG-9 waves, they'd RTB right now. I agree with Mr. Jackson, that it's deplorable the way COMBAT WOUNDED have been treated by DA! Those men and women have paid FAR TOO DEAR a price!
I personally believe Homeland Security is mostly a "charley foxtrot", but,
I agree with Hacker, the F-14 weapon system, from the outset, is one of the most powerful we have ever devised! A motivated Muslim can wreak havoc with coalition forces......the only thing I can't be sure of, have the Iranians a supply of AIM-54s? I'm sure they could afford to pay for those puppies. I stand perplexed...........
-oliver johnson
rant mode off

[Randy Haskin]

Re: F-14's siezed

I agree with Hacker, the F-14 weapon system, from the outset, is one of the most powerful we have ever devised!

Uhhh, I didn't say that.

[SpinB]

Re: F-14's siezed

Sorry, not enough adverbs, or conjunctions, or, dare i say...brains! I should have said I agree with the last stament you made, being, you'd rather they sit on the ramp UNABLE to fly, than take the chance
of having to shoot them or have friendlies get shot! Deepest Apologies, Sir. ....long day....
I do still think HomSec is still....mostly....'charley foxtrot'! They need stronger, more focused LEADERSHIP! I know, politics...... I do know there are VERY GOOD PEOPLE at the pointy end of their "spear".

Rant Mode off/ Circuit Breaker pulled and collared
-juice...out...

[Warren_C]

Re: F-14's siezed

I am a former F-14A Plane Captain / Jet Engine mechanic, and served with the “Gunfighters” at NAS Miramar and “Superheat” at NAS Dallas from 1985-1992. I have been following this post and others like it on different websites, let me add some perspective to this conversation.

Flash forward 15 Years, I joined the “Wings over the Rockies” museum, they have an old “A” model “Tomcat”. They recently found out the Navy was going to let them keep it, however, in turn the museum had to pay for the cost of de-milling this. A team was sent down from Oceana. They basically gutted the front and rear cockpits and pulled every “box” out of the fuselage. Not a big deal, but, then I hear the reason that they are going through this exercise is to “eliminate the possible export of any item that could help Iran maintain their fleet of “Tomcats”, I can’t help but roll my eyes every time I hear that “statement” from government officials, media outlets, museum, or folks chatting on web boards. Why?

The F-14A is only an effective “Weapon System” if you have highly trained Pilots, RIOs, mechanics and weapons loaders. Any weapon system is honed through sorties, war exercises, maintenance drills. The Tomcat is a very complex aircraft, and very maintenance intensive. When, the Shaw was overthrown the parts supply was cut off. At some point the birds were no longer usable, if I were to guess I say by the early 80s, they had exhausted all spares, and started to cannibalize their existing fleet. Today, if they could field a squadron, I would be impressed. If I were a betting man, I let it all ride on their fleet is hard broke.

So, let’s talk avionics, the AWG-9, was a good system for its day, but wasn’t this system upgraded on our subsequent “D” models? When we would take our birds to “El Sweato” NAS El Centro, our AQs (avionics techs) would have a hell of a time keeping stuff working in the heat, and we had an endless supply of parts. I’m thinking the Middle East is pretty hard on avionics both for us and the “Home team”.

Now lets talk about the heart and soul of any weapons system, the personnel. The Grumman factory trained up the Iranian mechanics, back in the late 70s. A 20 year old, **** hot Iran mech would now be around 50. If he had a long service career, he probably did so on some other a/c that worked. In order to pass on his knowledge to the next generation of mechanics he has to have something to train them on. Like me, I think my counterpart has long retired. Going back and working on this old bird would be kind of like trying to remember Algebra, so you can help your kid in math. How many remember FOIL, if you don’t use it you lose it.

So for the sake of argument, lets say the Iranians have all their birds in working order. To accomplish this they would have to develop an aerospace industry, then retrofit, engines, avionics, and all the consumables, rocket actuator for the seats, tires, brakes, filters. Would it still be a “Tomcat”? Or just look like one when you squint. I am thinking Randy and the boys would have no problems de-milling their Tomcats

So how many folks here still actually thinks Iran has mission capability today on the Tomcat?

[64chrysler300]

Re: F-14's siezed

Iran wouldn't have to develop anything....IF they have operational Turkeys I'd bet they're full of reverse engineered stuff courtesy of Russia and China....maybe even North Korea....especially N. Korea as they're cash strapped. The Iranians are pretty smart and resourcefull. A lot more so than many of their neighbors are.

[deepsky]

Re: F-14's siezed

My brother is an airframe mech with VMFA(AW)-121. If he can keep a plane in the air, some Iranian sheep herder could!

[Victor Archer]

Re: F-14's siezed

Gezzz... I hope don't have to give these back...

[Leo]

Re: F-14's siezed

Really respect your brother there Deepsky? Ahhh, brotherly love.
I don't know the nuts and bolts of keeping an F-14 viable. I DO know that history teaches us that techs have done a heck of a lot with very little in the past, and I would'nt put ANYTHING beyond them.
Would it be able to compete with our best? All it takes is a farmer with a pop-gun to bring you down.
I know there are some parts on these "scrapped" planes that could possibly be used (I'm thinking hard to produce airframe components and such) but I'd be much more worried about a government source selling them than a couple of respected museums.
Visit the AMARC site, it is a little strange to see the frenzy in the destruction of the retired airframes. They want them GONE!

[speeddemon]

Re: F-14's siezed

Last time I flew in the Gulf was about 10 years ago, and even though we were there for Iraq, the ones we worried about were the Iranians.

HOWEVER, even back then, the best intel we had was that NONE of the Iranian F-14's were airworthy, let alone operational. They had a handful of operational P-3's (again, sold to the Shah's government) who would like to come out and play 'tag' with us during a Strait of Hormuz transit, or something...but the hard truth was, when we were told what 'dangers' to expect, the Iranian F-14's weren't even a blip on the map.

Gonna have to agree with Warren here. They are a paper tiger threat. And as I recall, the F-14's that went to Iran DID NOT have the same weapons integration system that our did. They might be, under some extreme circumstances, able to get a few airplanes airborne, but they wouldn't be able to do crap with them if they did.

As far as 'reverse engineering' stuff for them...well...I'll say it again, 'their' Tomcats were not like 'our' Tomcats. The export versions were severely clipped of any of the 'good stuff' that could potentially be used against us.