Before it was Rare Bear

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Originally Posted by knot4u

BCIV complains that no one's interested in this thread and then he doesn't post? I still want to hear the story about Lyle letting it all hang out. That's a story I've never been privy to. Such a tease.

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Lief,
I am sorry, I was busy with family from Christmas to the New Year.

Back to business.

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Originally Posted by Racer 18

I recall seeing an engine sitting outside at AC Cylinder. Don't know if this was the engine first used? John may know. Cliff was the crew chief and had lots of R-3350/DC 7 experience. George from Los Alamitos NAS was I believe a P2V mechanic as well.

We had to make almost everything fwf since it was a one off new installation. Lyle had acquired a stock new Bearcat QEC less engine that was parts were used if applicable. All the major work was done in Hangar F 8 at Compton. The initial engine runs, etc. accomplished at Compton. Then it was towed to LGB (airport mgr wouldn't approve flight due to Mike Carol P-39 crash) and ultimately SNA (engine runs to get the DC-7 prop to cycle) for first flight to Chino about a week before Reno 1969.

Randy Difani (T6 Race 18 ret.)

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Randy has remembered a lot of the details. The first engine had been removed by the Navy and was in a surplus yard in or near San Ysidro. It was part of a group of engines and parts that George Byard had bought in a bid. I believe that I remember hearing that engine was a R-3350-26WC. George felt that with proper inspection and some ground runs it would make a great candidate for the first Bearcat engine.

As Randy said the QEC parts in the background of the picture are part of the brand new QEC assembly that Lyle bought from Palley's Surplus. One of the things in the picture is an AD Skyraider engine mount, I believe that the engine showed up attached to that mount.

Lyle had bought a Skyraider exhaust system as well and it used to be in the hangar for years in a large square box. I don't think any of that stuff fit anything with the Bearcat cowling installed. So Cliff Putnam started making an exhaust out of the Turbo-Comoound exhaust parts that were in big crates at Aircraft Cylinder and Turbine. It's possible that the engine Randy saw at AC&T was the same engine. I don't remember if Lyle went to San Ysidro or AC&T to pick the engine up.

At this point in the life of the Wright/Bearcat program the engine was stock. Originally they were try to use the Skyraider ADI system for the racer. This would be used/tuned/used for several years until the Greg Shaw system was built up. Greg had become good friends with Pete Law and Pete advised Greg, and later on Greg/Dave Cornell with different systems until the tunable system that was built in the late eighties. When Dave Cornell left the team in late 1988 he took that system with him.

At this point I can quickly respond to the cowling discussion. The airplane as shown in the first flight picture had stock F8F-2 cowling with a DC-7 spinner and an afterbody that I am not sure what it came from . The lower -2 cowling had a reverse shaped scoop that relieved any pressure that could have contributed to an effective pressure cowl. At speed the cowling would slightly balloon, as a result of too much air going in and not enough airflow managed properly reduce drag and cool the engine. Eventually Bill Prewitt in the post Reno '87 timeframe started with a clean piece of paper approach to using a DC-7 cowling with a new intermediate cowl section. This unit had an exhaust shield section that was fabricated from pieces of a S-2 tracker cowl acquired by AC&T.

Mr. Slack, if you can divulge additional info, was the NO2 also injected into the eye of the supercharger as with the ADI? Did ADI flow have to be reduced with NO2 application?

I'm also curious about the aforementioned T-33 brake modification.

Thanks, really interesting stuff to this gearhead.

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Originally Posted by cragdweller

Mr. Slack, if you can divulge additional info, was the NO2 also injected into the eye of the supercharger as with the ADI? Did ADI flow have to be reduced with NO2 application?

I'm also curious about the aforementioned T-33 brake modification.

Thanks, really interesting stuff to this gearhead.

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I'll reply to this with my limited knowledge. The nitrous was always stored as a liquid on board the airplane, that's why people would've occasionally seen a tin bath tub full of nitrous bottles and ice/dry ice/moving blankets in the pit. We'd cool the bottles to the point that the gas became a liquid and then turn the bottles upside down on special little stands and used a compressed gas air powered pump to fill the tanks in the hellhole. "Kachunk-Kachunk-Kachunk", sometimes the nitrous would start to warm up again and vent out of a little hole in the side of the fuselage. The whole thing made for great theater, but it was also very real. The nozzles for the nitrous were mounted in the wing root carb intakes, this accomplished a couple of things. First and foremost as it exited the nozzles as a liquid it would change to a gas drastically cooling the intake air and then of course it would act as an oxidizer for the fuel air mixture. I seem to remember the lever for the nitrous (there was never a button) was tied into the fuel system (pressure carb). If memory serves the ADI was based on manifold pressure exclusively. I worked with Greg on both systems but I suspect he probably kept a few cards up his sleeve. We would sometimes test the duration of the nitrous in the hangar. I would get the nod to jump in the cockpit and toss the lever, then I'd just have to sit there for a while in a big noisy fog bank until it petered out and then try to get out and not fall off of the airplane. Good times. As far as the T-33 brakes, that was John's solution to a couple of problems. The stock Bearcat wheels and brakes weren't ever up to the task and parts were becoming hard to find. John made the pieces to modify the airplane to use T-33 wheels and brakes. It was a huge improvement. Hopefully he'll tell us about it.

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Originally Posted by knot4u

I'll reply to this with my limited knowledge. The nitrous was always stored as a liquid on board the airplane, that's why people would've occasionally seen a tin bath tub full of nitrous bottles and ice/dry ice/moving blankets in the pit. We'd cool the bottles to the point that the gas became a liquid and then turn the bottles upside down on special little stands and used a compressed gas air powered pump to fill the tanks in the hellhole. "Kachunk-Kachunk-Kachunk", sometimes the nitrous would start to warm up again and vent out of a little hole in the side of the fuselage. The whole thing made for great theater, but it was also very real. The nozzles for the nitrous were mounted in the wing root carb intakes, this accomplished a couple of things. First and foremost as it exited the nozzles as a liquid it would change to a gas drastically cooling the intake air and then of course it would act as an oxidizer for the fuel air mixture. I seem to remember the lever for the nitrous (there was never a button) was tied into the fuel system (pressure carb). If memory serves the ADI was based on manifold pressure exclusively. I worked with Greg on both systems but I suspect he probably kept a few cards up his sleeve. We would sometimes test the duration of the nitrous in the hangar. I would get the nod to jump in the cockpit and toss the lever, then I'd just have to sit there for a while in a big noisy fog bank until it petered out and then try to get out and not fall off of the airplane. Good times. As far as the T-33 brakes, that was Johns solution to a couple of problems. The stock Bearcat wheels and brakes weren't ever up to the task and parts were becoming hard to find. John made the pieces to modify the airplane to use T-33 wheels and brakes. It was a huge improvement. Hopefully he'll tell us about it.

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Another great and informative thread. How often was the NOS used in actual racing?

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Originally Posted by rforslund

Another great and informative thread. How often was the NOS used in actual racing?

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I honestly don't know. Even if you were a trusted member of the the crew some things were still held pretty close to the vest. I was never part of the inner, inner circle. I just bounced around the edges. I do know that the airplane carried enough nitrous, fuel, ADI and spraybar water to run an entire Gold race from "Gentlemen, You have a race" to the checkered flag with it all on if it needed to and still have enough left to cool down and land safely.

Nitrous Oxide, nobody, but nobody used the gas like we did. We had started using Nitrous back in 1971 or 1972. We couldn't make enough manifold pressure to blow the engine up. We had Ron Hammel of 10,000 RPM build the first system which was really only a 150 horsepower system with two sets of for/aft stainless steel bars going through the plate underneath the carburetor. We used that system for a few years, it would get us a half lap maybe three quarter and then all the liquid nitrous oxide was gone and that was that. We added three more bottles for a total of six. That got us a lap and a half. All of those bottles had to be removed and taken to an outside source to fill.

Next Marvin Miller was brought in to build a system, Miller told us that the system that Ron Hammel had built was not doing the right delivery Miller's system had four long tubes that went directly down and shot the gas and fuel directly into the front of the impellers in the supercharger, the eye so to speak as to the original question. After a bunch of money was spent on the Marvin Miller system, it worked the same as the Ron Hammel system. Not being impressed Greg Shaw who at this time was a just out of high school kid that thanks to street racing and the incredible desire to experiment with anything....Greg tried injecting Hydrazine into an engine once. LOL. Different story for a different day.

Greg started talking to Lyle and the team about Nitrous Oxide, but Greg was not a "Big Name" in the Nitrous Oxide business so the details didn't make it past the restaurant table. Time went along, Greg kept learning, the Bearcat ended up on it's belly and parked in a hangar at Mojave. Eventually the Bearcat ended up sneaking across the Kern County line on Silver Queen Rd. Finishing the trip to Van Nuys airport in the middle of the night.

Bill Noctor and Chris Wood approached Lyle and soon a new team was being built in Van Nuys. One day Dave Cornell walked into the hangar and said the fateful words, "I have a machine shop is there anything I can do to help?" Life changing moment for all of us. Soon we were all spending more time on the Bearcat, discussing plans, we had, dreams we had, ideas we had. Greg finally had someone that listened when he talked about Nitrous Oxide. A quick ride up Balboa Blvd. in my Nitrous Oxide equipped Chevelle on the way to lunch at Lulu's. Greg and Dave became the ultimate Nitrous Oxide obsessed pair in the world. They had a plan to build things that would put the world on its ear. I weasled my way in and the three of us did a lot of work on Nitrous Oxide systems, just for the Bearcat at this point. The big secret became (a) how to carry enough? (b) how to keep it liquid. At this point we were still using electric solenoids, once we had more capacity and could keep it liquid we had the nightmare of finding out that if you got an electric solenoid cold enough it wouldn't close. So the fuel shuts off and the nitrous still flowed.

Dave made a mechanically connected pair of valves that when one was opened so was the other, when one was closed so was the other. Problem solved. Ultimately there was a valve on the gasoline side that allowed fuel flow adjustment.

At this point Dave and Greg had determined that by placing the nitrous oxide nozzles in the inlets of the wings they could help the transition of the air going into the ducts. Supercharger efficiency was increased. Thanks to a chance meeting with the one time second in command to Kurt Tank by the three of us we learned the secret to keeping Nitrous Oxide liquid for as long as we wanted. We tested the 450 horsepower system for a 15 minute flight, and once we discovered it was throttleable we tested the 450 horsepower system for 30 minutes. Rare Bear had a nitrous oxide system that was light years ahead of everything else anybody else had or ever would have.

We could change the system to the 600 horsepower system for qualifying, do a quick fuel flow adjustment after take off. Land open the bottles, take off again and qualify. We could change to the 450/300 horsepower nozzles, since we were starting on the rich side dial down the fuel flow during the form up at part throttle and be ready to race.

Actual race usage, surprisingly not that much for a system that had so much research time. But when we used it the effect was outstanding.

Lyle got passed by "The Tige' in the Witch" during the Gold race in 1989 because of poor split time calling by the new Crew Chief Gordon Symon. Carl Schutte corrected the poor information telling Lyle he'd been passed. In less than the distance of two pylons on the hill the Bearcat took back the lead. Dwight Thorn spoke of this to me over a bottle of Cab Sav years later.

Yeah, it worked great. I don't know how much Dave Cornell shared with Pete Law. I know as Lief said that we didn't talk about the Nitrous Oxide system with those that didn't need to know the details.

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Originally Posted by BellCobraIV

Nitrous Oxide, nobody, but nobody used the gas like we did. We had started using Nitrous back in 1971 or 1972. We couldn't make enough manifold pressure to blow the engine up. We had Ron Hammel of 10,000 RPM build the first system which was really only a 150 horsepower system with two sets of for/aft stainless steel bars going through the plate underneath the carburetor. We used that system for a few years, it would get us a half lap maybe three quarter and then all the liquid nitrous oxide was gone and that was that. We added three more bottles for a total of six. That got us a lap and a half. All of those bottles had to be removed and taken to an outside source to fill.

Next Marvin Miller was brought in to build a system, Miller told us that the system that Ron Hammel had built was not doing the right delivery Miller's system had four long tubes that went directly down and shot the gas and fuel directly into the front of the impellers in the supercharger, the eye so to speak as to the original question. After a bunch of money was spent on the Marvin Miller system, it worked the same as the Ron Hammel system. Not being impressed Greg Shaw who at this time was a just out of high school kid that thanks to street racing and the incredible desire to experiment with anything....Greg tried injecting Hydrazine into an engine once. LOL. Different story for a different day.

Greg started talking to Lyle and the team about Nitrous Oxide, but Greg was not a "Big Name" in the Nitrous Oxide business so the details didn't make it past the restaurant table. Time went along, Greg kept learning, the Bearcat ended up on it's belly and parked in a hangar at Mojave. Eventually the Bearcat ended up sneaking across the Kern County line on Silver Queen Rd. Finishing the trip to Van Nuys airport in the middle of the night.

Bill Noctor and Chris Wood approached Lyle and soon a new team was being built in Van Nuys. One day Dave Cornell walked into the hangar and said the fateful words, "I have a machine shop is there anything I can do to help?" Life changing moment for all of us. Soon we were all spending more time on the Bearcat, discussing plans, we had, dreams we had, ideas we had. Greg finally had someone that listened when he talked about Nitrous Oxide. A quick ride up Balboa Blvd. in my Nitrous Oxide equipped Chevelle on the way to lunch at Lulu's. Greg and Dave became the ultimate Nitrous Oxide obsessed pair in the world. They had a plan to build things that would put the world on its ear. I weasled my way in and the three of us did a lot of work on Nitrous Oxide systems, just for the Bearcat at this point. The big secret became (a) how to carry enough? (b) how to keep it liquid. At this point we were still using electric solenoids, once we had more capacity and could keep it liquid we had the nightmare of finding out that if you got an electric solenoid cold enough it wouldn't close. So the fuel shuts off and the nitrous still flowed.

Dave made a mechanically connected pair of valves that when one was opened so was the other, when one was closed so was the other. Problem solved. Ultimately there was a valve on the gasoline side that allowed fuel flow adjustment.

At this point Dave and Greg had determined that by placing the nitrous oxide nozzles in the inlets of the wings they could help the transition of the air going into the ducts. Supercharger efficiency was increased. Thanks to a chance meeting with the one time second in command to Kurt Tank by the three of us we learned the secret to keeping Nitrous Oxide liquid for as long as we wanted. We tested the 450 horsepower system for a 15 minute flight, and once we discovered it was throttleable we tested the 450 horsepower system for 30 minutes. Rare Bear had a nitrous oxide system that was light years ahead of everything else anybody else had or ever would have.

We could change the system to the 600 horsepower system for qualifying, do a quick fuel flow adjustment after take off. Land open the bottles, take off again and qualify. We could change to the 450/300 horsepower nozzles, since we were starting on the rich side dial down the fuel flow during the form up at part throttle and be ready to race.

Actual race usage, surprisingly not that much for a system that had so much research time. But when we used it the effect was outstanding.

Lyle got passed by "The Tige' in the Witch" during the Gold race in 1989 because of poor split time calling by the new Crew Chief Gordon Symon. Carl Schutte corrected the poor information telling Lyle he'd been passed. In less than the distance of two pylons on the hill the Bearcat took back the lead. Dwight Thorn spoke of this to me over a bottle of Cab Sav years later.

Yeah, it worked great. I don't know how much Dave Cornell shared with Pete Law. I know as Lief said that we didn't talk about the Nitrous Oxide system with those that didn't need to know the details.

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Thanks John, I hope I didn't speak a bit too much. Now about those brakes...

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Originally Posted by knot4u

Thanks John, I hope I didn't speak a bit too much. Now about those brakes...

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Lief,
I don't know what happens when I post things on this website. Sometimes I write a really beautiful answer and push the "SUBMIT REPLY" button and everything just locks up. As you may have noticed I tend to get long in my answers. I wrote a great detailed post on the website to Neal's thread above. Even though we have since covered the material, I wanted to fill in the gaps. I also think that it is important to name some of the unknown folks on the shop floor at AC&T. Lyle ALWAYS after a record or a win went to AC&T to personally congratulate all of the workers on the floor. They noticed it as well. When I was over there working with Mel on engines those guys would set parts off the shelf and say "No! That part is not good enough for the Bearcat. We want to win." Lyle really was great with all the folks that followed him. So I've been trying to remember the people that I knew.

Heard about nitros for a long time. Nitros is an oxidizer right? Over leaning the engine bad news. How delicate is that balance? Push the button to long and a spike in cylinder head temp?
This is a great thread. Thank you Mr.Slack.:thumbsup:

NO2 adds additional oxygen to the combustion chambers increasing cylinder pressure and subsequent power. But additional oxygen requires additional gasoline to maintain the correct mixture, so when you introduce NO2 to any piston engine, you also need to introduce more gas. As more fuel/air is packed into the combustion chambers (whether by nitrous oxide or supercharger boost), the limiting factor becomes detonation.

In the Bearcat, and in the German fighters that pioneered GM1 (as they called it), NO2 had the additional effect of cooling the air intake charge, in a similar way as ADI (water/methanol- again pioneered by the Germans). So I believe that as NO2 is introduced, ADI might need to be reduced, otherwise, some liquid would fall out of suspension and there would be water running down the intake runners. Not sure if that was ever an issue in Rare Bear but the WWII engine developers did run into that problem.

Putting the NO2 spray bars in the Bear wing root intakes is really interesting. None of the WWII systems did it that way that I'm aware of. But on the Bear with the speeds it is capable of, air compression is already happening at those wing root intakes due to ram air effect? So introducing Nitrous there could help cool and condense the intake charge before it reaches the carb maybe?

Meeting the assistant to Kurt Tank would have been a fascinating conversation. Focke Wulf was experimenting with Nitrous and water/methanol very early on, with the BMW radial and the Daimler and Jumo V12s. Very cool.

Thanks to all for the fascinating descriptions.

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Originally Posted by BellCobraIV

Lief,
I don't know what happens when I post things on this website. Sometimes I write a really beautiful answer and push the "SUBMIT REPLY" button and everything just locks up. As you may have noticed I tend to get long in my answers. I wrote a great detailed post on the website to Neal's thread above. Even though we have since covered the material, I wanted to fill in the gaps. I also think that it is important to name some of the unknown folks on the shop floor at AC&T. Lyle ALWAYS after a record or a win went to AC&T to personally congratulate all of the workers on the floor. They noticed it as well. When I was over there working with Mel on engines those guys would set parts off the shelf and say "No! That part is not good enough for the Bearcat. We want to win." Lyle really was great with all the folks that followed him. So I've been trying to remember the people that I knew.

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Hey John, again, thankful to have you and crew back here! I too have had a huge response just basically disappear.. the messages have an auto save feature and sometimes, you can... I can't remember where or what to click but the option to restore saved content appears... I've not been totally successful at getting it to work for me though..

I'd like to make a suggestion though, since I consider your input to this site absolutely priceless.. Maybe compile the message in microsoft notepad, then copy/cut paste into the message body and you've got a copy in the notepad document in case something goes.... *bink*.... you can recopy paste and all is well!

The stuff you guys are putting out here are priceless to the history of the sport in a very detailed way that I do not think you get anywhere else.. maybe because we're not facebook and much more intimate here with far less visitors. Most of the folks who actually read these posts are interested in the content... not much reason to be here otherwise so coupled with the safeguards I've tried to put in place.. we don't have a lot of random spiteful type messages like elsewhere..

Again, I'm SOOOO glad you're here! You know I loved your dad, I felt so very lucky to be a friend of a hero of mine.. I still have to pinch myself!!! Now that I'm friends and I feel pretty close to you John, I feel even luckier!

I once was, "comically" accused of making this site aafo.rarebear.com well.. I'll accept that! That team accepted me on board as an equal, Lyle showed me respect that I would never have expected..

To me, all of this is about remembering perhaps the best air race pilot EVER... Balls of STEEL, (hardened) and an absolutely uncanny lack of fear as we normal people feel it...

I want to remember back then.. it makes me happy...

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Reever

This is a great thread. Thank you Mr.Slack.:thumbsup:

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Ain't that the truth! :beerchug::flag::worship:

Yes, Wayne, I've been writing everything in Google Keep, cutting and pasting the last few posts.


Cragdweller,
I've talked with so many people who keep trying to make more horsepower with Nitrous Oxide by emulating "the max lean" power stage. I tell them that's stupid. Just add more nitrous oxide and the proper amount of gasoline enrichment fuel. Stay away from max lean that is how a cutting torch works.

Yes meeting the #2 guy under Kurt Tank, who by the way had been a Lockheed employee since 1946 was an outstanding moment. The original conversation was regarding his information on MW50 (The German air ministry term for water injection.) This cat became so interested in the Bearcat that he brought his hand written notebook from the Focke Wulf FW190D/TA152 program with him to us. Dave and Greg were getting fantastic input from him on the MW50 system when I looked past what he was showing them and saw the notation GM1 on the next page. Dave and Greg were not familiar with the GM1 term at that point. I asked the man "what do you have there on GM1?" In his perfect little German American accent he looked over his shoulder with a sly look and asked me " you know the GM1?" I said "not as well as you do that's for sure!" Three hours later Dave, Greg and myself all knew more.....and we kept what we learned away from everyone else. It was a huge lesson in going faster.

Was there ever any though given to using Methanol as the enrichment fuel for the Nitrous circuit?

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Originally Posted by Race5

Was there ever any though given to using Methanol as the enrichment fuel for the Nitrous circuit?

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As with everything else, yes there was a very short lived consideration given to Methanol as an enrichment fuel.

On Rare Bear we had modified the blower housing that we were using which was a R-3350-42/93 model housing to accept the R-3350-32 fuel system. This was because the -42/93 was a fuel injected engine and the injection pumps would not fit with our engine mount. As a result of this a couple of modifications were made that allowed the fuel to be injected through the impeller. It would take more time and room to outline those modifications than I'm going to do for this answer. The end result was all of the fuel went through a hose after being externally metered through the inside of the supercharger section down to a modified passage that allowed the fuel to be injected through the impeller.

Now we could have put a plate under the carburetor for the enrichment fuel and more hoses that would have to be fitted in the accessory section of the airframe. The accessory section already had ten pounds of potatoes in a five pound sack. In addition to that each hose introduced two points of potential leakage along with the potential of hose failure per inch. (Meaning a 12 inch hose has 24 less inches of potential failure than a 36 inch hose. Due to potential abrasion.)

Now we didn't carry straight methanol in any capacity, so a tank would need to be created, a hose to the pump, an methanol pump, (another source of potential failure) a hose to the backside of the cockpit, a bulkhead fitting, a hose to the valve inside the cockpit, a hose from the valve in the cockpit to the backside of the firewall, a junction fitting to feed a set of hoses that would have to be attached to the plate underneath the carburetor. Twenty approximately new hoses to be inspected after each flight, an additional tank to service on the checklist, an additional tank location to inform the crash crew about on the emergency tour. (The Bearcat was already complicated enough with everything else she carried that the fire/crash crew had us meet them with our crew truck on the ramp in case of a Mayday to be onsite to advise the fire crew chief.)

So with all of that in mind we didn't feel like any benefit +/- was lost in the complexity of the additional hazards.

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Originally Posted by BellCobraIV

Yes, Wayne, I've been writing everything in Google Keep, cutting and pasting the last few posts.


Cragdweller,
I've talked with so many people who keep trying to make more horsepower with Nitrous Oxide by emulating "the max lean" power stage. I tell them that's stupid. Just add more nitrous oxide and the proper amount of gasoline enrichment fuel. Stay away from max lean that is how a cutting torch works.

Yes meeting the #2 guy under Kurt Tank, who by the way had been a Lockheed employee since 1946 was an outstanding moment. The original conversation was regarding his information on MW50 (The German air ministry term for water injection.) This cat became so interested in the Bearcat that he brought his hand written notebook from the Focke Wulf FW190D/TA152 program with him to us. Dave and Greg were getting fantastic input from him on the MW50 system when I looked past what he was showing them and saw the notation GM1 on the next page. Dave and Greg were not familiar with the GM1 term at that point. I asked the man "what do you have there on GM1?" In his perfect little German American accent he looked over his shoulder with a sly look and asked me " you know the GM1?" I said "not as well as you do that's for sure!" Three hours later Dave, Greg and myself all knew more.....and we kept what we learned away from everyone else. It was a huge lesson in going faster.

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That's awesome! That's a great story. No doubt Lockheed used every bit of that man's knowledge!

Not all of the modifications always worked. I remember word came down from on high that we needed an additional amount of ADI. BCIV built a very nice aluminum tank that I mounted in the hellhole (with approval and guidance from everyone involved, I swear I was just going to put a sleeping bag back there at one point). Lyle was taxiing out and someone taxiing behind him mentioned to him over the radio that he was leaking what looked like water. He turned around and taxied back and he was not happy, I remember him "gunning" the throttle as he came back and the airplane torquing over a bit. I pulled off the hellhole door and it looked like the fountains at the Bellagio, ADI was streaming everywhere. If memory serves we pulled the tank, had it repaired and after a mod or two to the mount we reinstalled it. Just another Bearcat deal. I don't know if John remembers but one of the things we would do as the guys that would pull the GPU and chocks was take a good look at the backside of the engine for any leaks through the wheelwells. As I've said I was not part of the original or even the record setting group that built that airplane into a legend. I remember on the ramp at Reno starting up for some reason and Bill Hickle was the point man. We got the airplane started and pulled the GPU and ignition exciter and started poking around the wheelwell looking for anything that might be an issue. I found a bunch of fluid running down one of the fuel hoses so I dropped to my knees and gave the finger across the throat universal "Shut It Off!" Signal to Bill but he either didn't notice or he didn't think I was serious. John and Fred were on the other side of the airplane so I went and grabbed John by the jacket and dragged him back underneath to my side and put a bit of fuel in his nose. He dropped to his knees and somehow he conveyed to Bill that the airplane shouldn't go flying right now. Bill told Penney to shut it down and we stopped until we figured out what was wrong. I think it was the gasket on the main fuel inlet to the carb that had failed. We got it repaired and continued on, but it always bothered me. Why was I even bothering to inspect it if no one was going to listen when I found an issue? Like I said, there was an inner circle that I was a part of, and then there was an inner, inner circle that I bounced around the edges of.

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Originally Posted by knot4u

Not all of the modifications always worked. I remember word came down from on high that we needed an additional amount of ADI. BCIV built a very nice aluminum tank that I mounted in the hellhole (with approval and guidance from everyone involved, I swear I was just going to put a sleeping bag back there at one point). Lyle was taxiing out and someone taxiing behind him mentioned to him over the radio that he was leaking what looked like water. He turned around and taxied back and he was not happy, I remember him "gunning" the throttle as he came back and the airplane torquing over a bit. I pulled off the hellhole door and it looked like the fountains at the Bellagio, ADI was streaming everywhere. If memory serves we pulled the tank, had it repaired and after a mod or two to the mount we reinstalled it. Just another Bearcat deal. I don't know if John remembers but one of the things we would do as the guys that would pull the GPU and chocks was take a good look at the backside of the engine for any leaks through the wheelwells. As I've said I was not part of the original or even the record setting group that built that airplane into a legend. I remember on the ramp at Reno starting up for some reason and Bill Hickle was the point man. We got the airplane started and pulled the GPU and ignition exciter and started poking around the wheelwell looking for anything that might be an issue. I found a bunch of fluid running down one of the fuel hoses so I dropped to my knees and gave the finger across the throat universal "Shut It Off!" Signal to Bill but he either didn't notice or he didn't think I was serious. John and Fred were on the other side of the airplane so I went and grabbed John by the jacket and dragged him back underneath to my side and put a bit of fuel in his nose. He dropped to his knees and somehow he conveyed to Bill that the airplane shouldn't go flying right now. Bill told Penney to shut it down and we stopped until we figured out what was wrong. I think it was the gasket on the main fuel inlet to the carb that had failed. We got it repaired and continued on, but it always bothered me. Why was I even bothering to inspect it if no one was going to listen when I found an issue? Like I said, there was an inner circle that I was a part of, and then there was an inner, inner circle that I bounced around the edges of.

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Similar story, after start up on one of John Penney's first couple of years we had briefed that there was a certain thing we were going to look at after the start up. Penny was anxious to get airborne for some practice, Lyle was somewhere between Van Nuys and Reno in his El Camino. We did the start up I had a huge hydraulic fluid leak on my side. I dropped and gave the cut sign. The point had already passed the airplane off to taxi out. I didn't pull my chock and the plane started forward with the right chock pulled and everyone else walking back to the pits. The airplane was coming around to the left as the left side wheel was chocked. The propeller was headed towards me. I knew that the propeller would never touch the gear strut so I hopped on the tow bar ring and hugged the gear door for dear life. One of the guys from another team ran up to the outside aileron, grabbed it and signalled John to stop. When the airplane stopped I jumped off the stru wiggled the left aileron and signalled John to shut the engine down. John was mad, but it was not his fault. We left the airplane on the ramp. I went back into the pit and we had a crew safety meeting. The result of that meeting was that nobody pulled a chock until establishing contact with the other person pulling a chock. The next step was that someone was to walk the wing tips until the airplane cleared where other planes and crew were. And never "fing" never clear the "fing" plane to taxi until both sides had given the all clear.

In one of my last weeks on the team we were doing a night run I noticed that there was oil on the left side pocket door I went under the wing the leakage was big. I came out and gave Bill Hickle the cut sign. Lyle was mad that I had stopped the ground run before the mag check. I defended my position with Lyle still at the top of his lungs. Hickle climbed down looked at the leak, we realized that there was a threaded fitting that was no longer even hand tight. Bill told Lyle it was a good thing to shut it down. Lyle went down to the hangar, Bill asked me when was I going to tell Lyle off. I just responded it's Lyle's toy, he decides who gets to play.

I still loved racing with him, I always will however Da' Doc was already having other ideas. Strega and Dago we're in my future.

Except for a few hours in 2003 when Team Rare Bear realized that since Hickle had not arrived yet that the team didn't have anyone there to pull a cylinder off for a change, Lyle asked Kerch if they could let me get everything ready for Hickle's arrival by starting to pull the cylinders until Bill could be there. That was the last time I would ever directly work on the airplane. Lyle asked me to consult after 2004, which I did but as for crewing...... I had done everything I ever wanted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BellCobraIV

Similar story, after start up on one of John Penney's first couple of years we had briefed that there was a certain thing we were going to look at after the start up. Penny was anxious to get airborne for some practice, Lyle was somewhere between Van Nuys and Reno in his El Camino. We did the start up I had a huge hydraulic fluid leak on my side. I dropped and gave the cut sign. The point had already passed the airplane off to taxi out. I didn't pull my chock and the plane started forward with the right chock pulled and everyone else walking back to the pits. The airplane was coming around to the left as the left side wheel was chocked. The propeller was headed towards me. I knew that the propeller would never touch the gear strut so I hopped on the tow bar ring and hugged the gear door for dear life. One of the guys from another team ran up to the outside aileron, grabbed it and signalled John to stop. When the airplane stopped I jumped off the stru wiggled the left aileron and signalled John to shut the engine down. John was mad, but it was not his fault. We left the airplane on the ramp. I went back into the pit and we had a crew safety meeting. The result of that meeting was that nobody pulled a chock until establishing contact with the other person pulling a chock. The next step was that someone was to walk the wing tips until the airplane cleared where other planes and crew were. And never "fing" never clear the "fing" plane to taxi until both sides had given the all clear.

In one of my last weeks on the team we were doing a night run I noticed that there was oil on the left side pocket door I went under the wing the leakage was big. I came out and gave Bill Hickle the cut sign. Lyle was mad that I had stopped the ground run before the mag check. I defended my position with Lyle still at the top of his lungs. Hickle climbed down looked at the leak, we realized that there was a threaded fitting that was no longer even hand tight. Bill told Lyle it was a good thing to shut it down. Lyle went down to the hangar, Bill asked me when was I going to tell Lyle off. I just responded it's Lyle's toy, he decides who gets to play.

I still loved racing with him, I always will however Da' Doc was already having other ideas. Strega and Dago we're in my future.

Except for a few hours in 2003 when Team Rare Bear realized that since Hickle had not arrived yet that the team didn't have anyone there to pull a cylinder off for a change, Lyle asked Kerch if they could let me get everything ready for Hickle's arrival by starting to pull the cylinders until Bill could be there. That was the last time I would ever directly work on the airplane. Lyle asked me to consult after 2004, which I did but as for crewing...... I had done everything I ever wanted.

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I hope you didn't consider my post as an attempted insult, that wasn't my intention, it was just my experience with big time air racing. If we want to insult someone we could talk about the guy that discharged a fire extinguisher at flames coming out of the stacks. I'll bet he regrets that. It was a time, mostly good with a couple of bummers, I choose to remember fondly. You mentioned Gordon. I'd sit on a hot plate for his rub recipes these days. My mom asked me the other day if I still have any of that "rub your buddy made", I had to remind her that was almost 30 years ago and Gordon passed away over a decade ago. Gordon might've been a lot of things but I know for sure he was a great cook, aircraft electrician and mechanic. I learned a lot from him, a lot from Greg, a lot from Mel, a lot from Hickle, a lot from Gil, a lot from Fred, a lot from you and a lot from Lyle. How he kept the circus running on a shoestring and exceeding all expectations is a mystery. I'm glad I was able to play my small part.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by knot4u

I hope you didn't consider my post as an attempted insult, that wasn't my intention, it was just my experience with big time air racing. If we want to insult someone we could talk about the guy that discharged a fire extinguisher at flames coming out of the stacks. I'll bet he regrets that. It was a time, mostly good with a couple of bummers, I choose to remember fondly. You mentioned Gordon. I'd sit on a hot plate for his rub recipes these days. My mom asked me the other day if I still have any of that "rub your buddy made", I had to remind her that was almost 30 years ago and Gordon passed away over a decade ago. Gordon might've been a lot of things but I know for sure he was a great cook, aircraft electrician and mechanic. I learned a lot from him, a lot from Greg, a lot from Mel, a lot from Hickle, a lot from Gil, a lot from Fred, a lot from you and a lot from Lyle. How he kept the circus running on a shoestring and exceeding all expectations is a mystery. I'm glad I was able to play my small part.

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Lief,
No on the contrary I hope you don't think I was knocking you. One time someone made the comment to me that I was only on the team because Lyle owned the airplane. Dwight Thorn gave me the opportunity to go to the Strega team. I got to make some pretty cool parts for Strega. I asked Lyle's permission to be on the Strega team and he asked me if I was going to win. I told him I was going to. He smiled and told me good luck. Matt Jackson leased the airplane that year....glad I missed that one.

Soon Dwight moved me from Strega to the Dago engine program.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BellCobraIV

Lief,
No on the contrary I hope you don't think I was knocking you. One time someone made the comment to me that I was only on the team because Lyle owned the airplane. Dwight Thorn gave me the opportunity to go to the Strega team. I got to make some pretty cool parts for Strega. I asked Lyle's permission to be on the Strega team and he asked me if I was going to win. I told him I was going to. He smiled and told me good luck. Matt Jackson leased the airplane that year....glad I missed that one.

Soon Dwight moved me from Strega to the Dago engine program.

---

That was my last involvement with the airplane. Being named in a lawsuit as a saboteur on an airplane I volunteered to work on and had no potential of financial gain whether the airplane won, lost or didn't fly at all gave me a bad taste and I walked away a bit angry. FatHead still hasn't won a race, although he's spent plenty of other peoples money trying. He's flown Rare Bear, Strega and Voodoo and it must just be bad luck to never have won a race in any of the three fastest airplanes to ever compete. What do I know, I'm just a dumb mechanic.

Not another peeing contest. No name calling. Watch out Wayne.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lockheed Bob

Not another peeing contest. No name calling. Watch out Wayne.

---

The way I read both Leif's and BCV's posts is that there is nothing meant toward either person. Leif left the team after being named in a lawsuit by the current owner, because he was a part of the team. It had nothing to do with BCV (who very clearly indicated that his statement was NOT a slight toward Leif.) I think we are good. That said, it would be interesting to hear the whole deal with the lawsuit, but not in this thread since this is about the very early days of RB. (Just trying to keep the thread on topic.)

Will

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RAD2LTR

The way I read both Leif's and BCV's posts is that there is nothing meant toward either person. Leif left the team after being named in a lawsuit by the current owner, because he was a part of the team. It had nothing to do with BCV (who very clearly indicated that his statement was NOT a slight toward Leif.) I think we are good. That said, it would be interesting to hear the whole deal with the lawsuit, but not in this thread since this is about the very early days of RB. (Just trying to keep the thread on topic.)

Will

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I left before Lyle sold the airplane, so did a lot of the others who had been working on it, and it wasn't Lyles fault. The lawsuit that Matt filed included a bunch of names, including mine, as defendants. Eventually my named got dropped and as far as I know the whole thing was eventually dropped. I've never understood why he thought we were trying to sabatoge his effort, no one would benefit from standing down for that Sunday race. I was normally the person that would disassemble and clean the main engine oil filter after each flight and run the remains through a strainer so we could inspect it looking for any signs of metal in the oil. That morning (I think we may have done a dawn patrol flight) there was metal in the filter and the decision was made to stand down rather than risk his life and the airplane. He didn't like that idea and kept arguing to at least start the race so he could recover some money for a last place finish, the answer was a firm no and we didn't race on Sunday. The Bearcat was a large part of my life at that time, but I did have a life outside of it. I had a full time job, I'd bought a home and met my future wife, if I was going to be sued as a volunteer it just wasn't worth it anymore. John Slack and I have zero beef, I always have, and still do, consider him as a friend. We've communicated outside of these threads recently, there's no pissing match there. After that whole debacle there was a sea change regarding the crew, I only ever worked with a couple of them and they seemed like good, enthusiastic mechanics who wanted to go racing. I suspect I was probably just a bit burnt out and the lawsuit pushed me away even further.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RAD2LTR

The way I read both Leif's and BCV's posts is that there is nothing meant toward either person. Leif left the team after being named in a lawsuit by the current owner, because he was a part of the team. It had nothing to do with BCV (who very clearly indicated that his statement was NOT a slight toward Leif.) I think we are good. That said, it would be interesting to hear the whole deal with the lawsuit, but not in this thread since this is about the very early days of RB. (Just trying to keep the thread on topic.)

Will

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Racers, whom both of the parties in this post are, generally have pretty thick skins, speak fairly bluntly, with little tolerance for BS...

Sometimes, some members take offense when they feel they are the target of the "gruffness" of the breed.. I tried to explain that to the last person who left the forum, to no avail.

Nothing to see here.... next..

Wayne, that was how I read it as well.

Leif, I didn't think you guys had any beef. I didn't know it was Matt that filed the lawsuit. I would hope that silliness would be dropped in short order. Was that the really great engine that was run at the 3K or was it someone else who nuked that?

This is an amazing thread and excellent to read. Please, keep rolling with it!

Will

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RAD2LTR

Wayne, that was how I read it as well.

Leif, I didn't think you guys had any beef. I didn't know it was Matt that filed the lawsuit. I would hope that silliness would be dropped in short order. Was that the really great engine that was run at the 3K or was it someone else who nuked that?

This is an amazing thread and excellent to read. Please, keep rolling with it!

Will

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That was not the 3K engine that also set a new race record in the Sunday Gold later that summer. I think that engine ate itself the next year, if I'm wrong I hope John can correct me. They painted the stripes green for the new sponsor, green paint has always been considered bad luck in motorsports. Is it true? I have no idea. That happened the year before I started helping out on the airplane, I think the first time I saw it it looked like someone had been sanding the green off and a lot of the orange was peeking through. It really wasn't much to look at. At that particular time there was nothing from the firewall forward, no outer wing panels, no flight controls on the tail but it did have the canopy on it (it also had the prerequisite oil puddle/stain underneath it). Maybe I thought the canopy was intriguing, I don't know. During my time with it I think we went through 4 engines, some failed for material issues and there are questions about a couple of the others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RAD2LTR

The way I read both Leif's and BCV's posts is that there is nothing meant toward either person. Leif left the team after being named in a lawsuit by the current owner, because he was a part of the team. It had nothing to do with BCV (who very clearly indicated that his statement was NOT a slight toward Leif.) I think we are good. That said, it would be interesting to hear the whole deal with the lawsuit, but not in this thread since this is about the very early days of RB. (Just trying to keep the thread on topic.)

Will

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No offense, but my name is Lief. I do remember one funny thing that happened out on the ramp once. There was a time that we were a pretty well oiled machine and sometimes we'd get the airplane out on the ramp early and then just relax in the shade the wings provided. I don't remember if it was a Saturday or a Sunday, but as we were just lounging around a few bees or yellowjackets decided to see what we were up to, I'm not a fan of flying insects with stingers and I started jumping around trying to swat them away. And then I turned around and saw a huge crowd of people looking at me as if I must've lost my mind, they must of thought I was either doing some weird new dance step or some sort of shaman dance to scare the evil away. To say I might've been a bit embarrassed would be an understatement, but we continued on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by knot4u

No offense, but my name is Lief. I do remember one funny thing that happened out on the ramp once. There was a time that we were a pretty well oiled machine and sometimes we'd get the airplane out on the ramp early and then just relax in the shade the wings provided. I don't remember if it was a Saturday or a Sunday, but as we were just lounging around a few bees or yellowjackets decided to see what we were up to, I'm not a fan of flying insects with stingers and I started jumping around trying to swat them away. And then I turned around and saw a huge crowd of people looking at me as if I must've lost my mind, they must of thought I was either doing some weird new dance step or some sort of shaman dance to scare the evil away. To say I might've been a bit embarrassed would be an understatement, but we continued on.

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Yes, I'm very sorry I didn't catch that. (Repeatedly.) Oddly enough, my spell check says the correct way to spell your name is wrong.(I before E, except after C, clearly spell check is dumb. )

Hahah, what is it about aircraft engine oil and yellowjackets/wasps? Its like they are drawn to it. You weren't the first person and won't be the last to do a variation of the dance. I've seen it done at airshows where people are sitting under the wing of something trying to do exactly what you were doing.

Will

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RAD2LTR

Yes, I'm very sorry I didn't catch that. (Repeatedly.) Oddly enough, my spell check says the correct way to spell your name is wrong.(I before E, except after C, clearly spell check is dumb. )

Hahah, what is it about aircraft engine oil and yellowjackets/wasps? Its like they are drawn to it. You weren't the first person and won't be the last to do a variation of the dance. I've seen it done at airshows where people are sitting under the wing of something trying to do exactly what you were doing.

Will

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Your spell check is correct. My dad was nervous when he filled out my birth certificate and his brain went back to elementary school temporarily. I honestly don't care, you can call me Leif, or you can call me Lief as long as you call me (that's what I used to tell the ladies). They're pronounced differently and I prefer to think my name honors my Swedish heritage with an American twist.

I can only read with admiration, facination and gratitude rather than add anything to the discussion except "This thread is incredible!"

I was thinking about Greg Shaw today and how so many think he was just a big mean, mustachioed man. What some people don't know is Greg used to build ADI regulators for other airplanes at Reno. I can recall helping him test a bunch of regulators outside of the bearcat hangar one day with a water hose and an air compressor and he finally realized that I understood how they worked based on what he'd taught me, he was all smiles and laughter after that and we had a great time testing and setting up the remainder of the regulators for the rest of the afternoon. I think he liked teaching people, he told a lot of people a lot of things, but if you were ever able to show him that you'd learned what he was laying down it made him happy. Greg Shaw was not what people think, he was a very nice, gentle, compassionate man, unfortunately very few ever got to see that side of him. Or you can believe that Greg was a very stern, serious, and sometimes intimidating man. He was both. I miss him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by knot4u

I was thinking about Greg Shaw today and how so many think he was just a big mean, mustachioed man. What some people don't know is Greg used to build ADI regulators for other airplanes at Reno. I can recall helping him test a bunch of regulators outside of the bearcat hangar one day with a water hose and an air compressor and he finally realized that I understood how they worked based on what he'd taught me, he was all smiles and laughter after that and we had a great time testing and setting up the remainder of the regulators for the rest of the afternoon. I think he liked teaching people, he told a lot of people a lot of things, but if you were ever able to show him that you'd learned what he was laying down it made him happy. Greg Shaw was not what people think, he was a very nice, gentle, compassionate man, unfortunately very few ever got to see that side of him. Or you can believe that Greg was a very stern, serious, and sometimes intimidating man. He was both. I miss him.

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I've found people like Greg tend to be amazing resources, and do enjoy teaching people. When those people show they have retained what they learned, it means a lot to those people. I enjoy learning from people like this. I've had a few mentors like this. I think I would have liked to have met Greg. Sounds like a great person to learn from.

Will

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RAD2LTR

I've found people like Greg tend to be amazing resources, and do enjoy teaching people. When those people show they have retained what they learned, it means a lot to those people. I enjoy learning from people like this. I've had a few mentors like this. I think I would have liked to have met Greg. Sounds like a great person to learn from.

Will

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He was a great person to learn from. I'm sure he met plenty of people, but as I said previously he probably wasn't looking for any new friends. I guess the only way to get to know him was to be a genuine person (he seemed to have a nose for bull****) and just do whatever you could to help, I think it was a trust sort of thing, if he trusted and liked you he'd open up a bit. I can remember Greg having the entire team at his house for a BBQ, the stars of the show were a puppy (mine) and Bill Marr's toddler daughter doing a rehash of the old Coppertone billboards. My dog ended up jumping into the pool and sinking before she figured out how to swim. But it was just a very nice afternoon. Of course I think his wife Pam might've softened some of his rougher edges by then. I don't want to talk much more about it, it makes me sad.

I just re-read this entire thread. Still immensely fascinating. Thank you all who had stories to tell and told them!

So there has been a LOT of silence from my end for a while. I've been looking for people who I used to crew with "Before it was Rare Bear". I've found some, however recently I found something of my Dad's that has been missing for more than 25 years. There were once upon a time more than 200 banker's boxes of Lyle's items. Some charcoal and occasionally a diamond or two. In one of the boxes I found the missing Day-Timers from 1968 - 1975. I'm hoping at some time in the not so distant future that Brad Haskin and I get the chance to sit down with them and work out a definitive time line for the beginning of the Rare Bear. It was an exciting discovery.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BellCobraIV

So there has been a LOT of silence from my end for a while. I've been looking for people who I used to crew with "Before it was Rare Bear". I've found some, however recently I found something of my Dad's that has been missing for more than 25 years. There were once upon a time more than 200 banker's boxes of Lyle's items. Some charcoal and occasionally a diamond or two. In one of the boxes I found the missing Day-Timers from 1968 - 1975. I'm hoping at some time in the not so distant future that Brad Haskin and I get the chance to sit down with them and work out a definitive time line for the beginning of the Rare Bear. It was an exciting discovery.

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That sounds like a very cool find.

Will

Hear hear, very exciting!

Attachment 26515
Old photo, if you look closely from left to right are John Slack, Henry Hutchinson, Mike Looney on the right gear, Clark Thompson on the left and Don Dull pulling the GPU, I'm not sure who the girl on the far right is. IMHO that was probably the epitome of what an air racer should look like (doesn't hurt that I'm sitting in the cockpit).
Edit: Upon reflection I'm fairly certain that's Bill Kelly's truck towing the airplane. I don't think Bill ever stopped at an Auto Zone and didn't buy anything to put on his truck. I also know for sure that Bill, Fred Cairo and myself got into some nonsense in Phoenix one night that left me with a hangover, sore abs and sore cheeks from laughing so much. I miss that guy.