What do you see when you look at that picture? And my name is Lief, not Leif, I've been battling that assumption my entire adult life.Quote:
Originally Posted by CJAM427
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What do you see when you look at that picture? And my name is Lief, not Leif, I've been battling that assumption my entire adult life.Quote:
Originally Posted by CJAM427
Reposted
Do you recall when and where that picture was taken?Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman
Reno 1997 labelled Monday from the Valley of Speed fence, late in the day, IIRC.
Whether I recall anything correctly after 24 years is, of course, open to question...
My apologies, I edited my original post. People spell my name wrong all the time as well so I know how you feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by knot4u
I don't have the intimate knowledge of the airplane like others do so I'm not certain what I should be looking for. What I see is some sort of blow-by coming from the belly, a partially open gear door and maybe some oil canning in the fuselage?
Neal says that photo was taken in the valley on monday of the '97 races. That was the year Lyle got back into flying the airplane, I don't know if John Penney or Lyle were in the airplane when that picture was taken, it was a long time ago. Most of your observations are correct, except the blow-by from the oil cooler exit, it should've been a waterfall of steam, and all of that oil was normal (the first time I ever saw the airplane in person it hadn't had an engine mounted on it for over two years and it was still leaking oil). My concern has more to do with the control surface deflections on the elevators and rudder and the trim tab positions.Quote:
Originally Posted by CJAM427
Edit: I forgot to mention the pocket door hanging open, an open gear door was a bad deal for that airplane. We had issues trying to find sector gears for them, I suspect the repeated higher speeds put loads on them they weren't designed for. I know the Bearcat had a gear issue a few years after I left but I've always wondered if that might've been a contributing factor.
Interesting... If the Valley of Speed he'd be somewhat straight and level, and pulling minimal Gs. That does seem like a considerale amount of up elevator and aileron deflection. What is that thin stream of vapor coming straight out at 90 degrees from the fuselage? That's not the oil cooler exit you're talking about, is it? I have a couple other shots from that session -- one shows the stream and one seems not to.
Neal
The wing root intakes fed air to the oil cooler, and fed the carburetor, there was a big hole in the belly to let the oil cooler air exit (it has to go somewhere otherwise it would just create drag). The spay bar water nozzles were obviously just above the oil cooler, and the water would exit with the fresh air hopefully cooling down the air/oil heat exchanger as it changed from a liquid to a gas, cooling the air and oil in the process. Lot's of people way smarter than me had figured out how to do this long before I ever knew what a Bearcat was. Regarding the pissing of water out of the belly it looks like the spray bars weren't putting out the volume. There might be a few reasons for that but at this point I have no idea why, it should've been a trail of steam behind it like we've seen in some of the recent Dreadnought pictures posted here. The aileron position isn't disconcerting.Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman
Edit: The visible flame coming out of the exhaust doesn't give me the warm fuzzies. I wonder if this picture might have been taken at a moment when whoever was flying it might have been pulling off the course for reasons we don't know.
Would you mind posting the other images?Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman
Wonder if that shot just happened to catch the Bear as it started to roll into pylon 7-8-9.
That's quite possible -- I shot from several places along the old fence line over the years. These look right for a location where all the older houses are in that development. I remember racers being pretty level there, but it's also not real far from pylon 7.Quote:
Originally Posted by L.E.D.
Neal
Not at all -- this is interesting. I'd never thought much about the oil cooling arrangement, in terms of where the air went.Quote:
Originally Posted by knot4u
First shot is blown up and enhanced from the already posted image. The next is similar but with less visible flow. The last seems to be pulling off the course with no visible flow. My guess is that this was a test run on moderate power -- he seems to be running fairly high.
Neal
Third shot looks like a more normal spray pattern, if you look closely in shot 4 you can see the bottom of the oil cooler just above the exit. There wasn't much room for stuff in that portion of the airplane and it was crowded. I've worked on a lot of airplanes and that is still the most difficult, sometimes I'd question my sanity. But it came with a lot of satisfaction, friends and odd scars on my arms that I get to explain to my nieces and nephew. Look at the photo in your own post #112 in this thread with regards to cooling the oil.Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman
This morning Ezell Aviation posted a 9sec video on their fb page with the comment:
"Be watching Texas... she?s headed South!"
You can see both four and three bladed props also on the trailer.
Another thread has been started on this here. Mostly discussion about whether or not the three-blader's on there...despite it seeming obvious that it is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon Moer
Maybe there's a record attempt in her future?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon Moer
Where would they do it? I doubt Joe Clarks ranch will still be available, but I don't know if that's true. We can try to start a rumor that Rear Bear and Voodoo are going to finally figure it out once and for all in the high desert of Idaho. Of course that would be complete nonsense right..Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigger Al
(Two periods isn't an ellipse.)
Jeez, talk about getting some knickers in a twist.Quote:
Originally Posted by knot4u
No clue where they'd try it. Just some off-season speculation.
I was trying to make a joke, sometimes these threads get a bit dark. My sense of humor isn't always funny to a lot of people, I meant no offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigger Al
I got the joke and chuckled quite a bit. There are a lot people who would take it as gospel. You didn't offend me in the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by knot4u
What a unique coincidence .......this video was posted on the 'tube this morning.
ed; Rare Bear part starts @ 9:12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PoIGsBQ1mI
Did we lose everyone that was interested in this historically based thread?
John
No Sir, at least you didn't lose me.
There was some discussion of cowlings in another thread, and I note that in the latest versions of the cowl, there are no cowl flaps and in fact the only outlet for cooling air appears to be around the exhaust stacks. I'm not really clear whether that outlet has one slot for the stacks and another for air.
I guess my question would be, "Before it was Rare Bear" with the original DC-6(?) cowling, were there cowl flaps or was that all sealed up from the get-go?
Nope, I'm still waiting on the next installment. The thread did get a bit derailed however.
Will
This is one of the most interesting threads. As a mechanic, gearhead and student of air racing I can really sink my teeth into it. The talent pool and innovative thinking that created Rare Bear I can compare to Smokey Yunick.
Trying to absorb over fifty years of information on the development of "Rare Bear". Should get college credits. LOL:thumbsup:
You sure as hell didn't lose me. This is the most fascinating thread on here for a while. I grew up watching and rooting for the Bear throughout my childhood in the 70's, so hearing about the genesis has been fantastic. Thanks for the insight and historical perspective!
Definitely didn't lose interest from me either.
A question I thought of a while ago, where did the Phoenix name(s) come from and why the switch from Able Cat?
Okay great, lots of good topics and questions to go through. Hopefully we still have Neal and Lief for participation as well.
I'm still here, and still interested. Here's a rerun of a post from a couple of pages back:
And I still have questions about that first engine. It came from a scrap heap -- never sealed up or preserved. So were the cylinders still usable? What about accessories -- pumps and hoses and such. How much support was provided during build up from AC&T? Was the work done in Hangar F-8? Did Cliff Putnam do most of the engine work?
When did Mel Gregoire get involved with the program?
What was done about ADI? These engines did have ADI in airline service, didn't they? I understand that ADI was installed but not working during that first Reno.
This Birch Matthews photo of the first Reno is the best I've ever seen. Does anybody have color shots they could share?
Neal
I'm still here and will contribute if I think I can add to the conversation.
A silent but very grateful reader here.
Maybe John will come back if someone asks why the airplane has T-33 brakes and wheels?
I've been told that the vertical is taller than a stock Bearcat.
I've never heard that. But the original F8F-1 had a shorter vertical that was lengthened on the F8F-2, amongst other improvements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reever
This has been a fascinating thread.
Okay, that's probably what I heard. Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by knot4u
I'm pretty sure Dreadnought has raced with two different verticals, unfortunately the taller, more preferable version was damaged in an incident a few years ago and the smaller one has been installed ever since then. The only reason I think I know any of this is because of this forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reever
BCIV complains that no one's interested in this thread and then he doesn't post? I still want to hear the story about Lyle letting it all hang out. That's a story I've never been privy to. Such a tease.
I recall seeing an engine sitting outside at AC Cylinder. Don't know if this was the engine first used? John may know. Cliff was the crew chief and had lots of R-3350/DC 7 experience. George from Los Alamitos NAS was I believe a P2V mechanic as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman
We had to make almost everything fwf since it was a one off new installation. Lyle had acquired a stock new Bearcat QEC less engine that was parts were used if applicable. All the major work was done in Hangar F 8 at Compton. The initial engine runs, etc. accomplished at Compton. Then it was towed to LGB (airport mgr wouldn't approve flight due to Mike Carol P-39 crash) and ultimately SNA (engine runs to get the DC-7 prop to cycle) for first flight to Chino about a week before Reno 1969.
Randy Difani (T6 Race 18 ret.)