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  • Any word on Precious Metal yet??

    Just curious if any word on the extent of damage to Precious Metal ?? or better yet, Lack of damage
    Brian

  • #2
    Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

    I'm curious as to where the work will be done and if they choose to bring it home, how will they get it home? I think a truck is their only economical option.

    Is there an air carrier service where you can bolt your damage airplane to something larger like a Twin Otter or lift it with a Helicopter like a Sky Crane, which will fly it to your home airport? Like the Space Shuttle on top of the 747 arrangement or a Chinook Helicopter lifting a Hummer Jeep.

    Just checked, a Twin Otter has a carry capacity of 4,400 lbs. (fuel, personnel, cargo). A Mustang is in the 8,000-10,000 pound range and Precious Metal is heavier than a Mustang so it's going to have to be a lot larger than a Twin Otter.

    It looks like a Sky Crane Helicopter could lift it. Would this be possible? Would you need a pilot inside Precious Metal to prevent it from pitching, yawing, banking...?

    Sky Crane Capacity.
    Empty weight: 19,234 lb (8,724 kg)
    Max. takeoff weight: 42,000 lb (19,050 kg)



    The North American P-51 Mustang Specifications. WWII wartime specifications of the P-51A, A-36, P-51B, P-51C, P-51D, P-51K, P-51H, F-6D, F-6K, F-51D, F-51H Mustangs


    Last edited by SkyvanDelta; 09-29-2015, 01:21 PM.

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    • #3
      Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

      I think this is a take the wings off and put it on a truck type deal.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

        Originally posted by SkyvanDelta View Post
        I'm curious as to where the work will be done and if they choose to bring it home, how will they get it home? I think a truck is their only economical option.

        Is there an air carrier service where you can bolt your damage airplane to something larger like a Twin Otter or lift it with a Helicopter like a Sky Crane, which will fly it to your home airport? Like the Space Shuttle on top of the 747 arrangement or a Chinook Helicopter lifting a Hummer Jeep.

        Just checked, a Twin Otter has a carry capacity of 4,400 lbs. (fuel, personnel, cargo). A Mustang is in the 8,000-10,000 pound range and Precious Metal is heavier than a Mustang so it's going to have to be a lot larger than a Twin Otter.

        It looks like a Sky Crane Helicopter could lift it. Would this be possible? Would you need a pilot inside Precious Metal to prevent it from pitching, yawing, banking...?

        Sky Crane Capacity.
        Empty weight: 19,234 lb (8,724 kg)
        Max. takeoff weight: 42,000 lb (19,050 kg)



        The North American P-51 Mustang Specifications. WWII wartime specifications of the P-51A, A-36, P-51B, P-51C, P-51D, P-51K, P-51H, F-6D, F-6K, F-51D, F-51H Mustangs


        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-64_Skycrane

        There are plenty of wing and fuselage support jigs that facilitate easy transportation by truck. When Merlin's Magic was damaged in the pit explosion, they had it de-mated and on a truck in a matter of a few hours.

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        • #5
          Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

          Originally posted by Race5 View Post
          There are plenty of wing and fuselage support jigs that facilitate easy transportation by truck. When Merlin's Magic was damaged in the pit explosion, they had it de-mated and on a truck in a matter of a few hours.
          To remove the wing, put it on a truck, I'd estimate is going to take 4 mechanics 1 week to remove and then 1 week to put it on, plus a crane and a truck, correct? That's why I was thinking to fly it home in one piece would be faster and maybe cheaper.

          Have you ever heard of a case where a helicopter was used to lift it home?
          Last edited by SkyvanDelta; 09-29-2015, 03:16 PM.

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          • #6
            Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

            Originally posted by SkyvanDelta View Post
            To remove the wing, put it on a truck, I'd estimate is going to take 4 mechanics 1 week to remove and then 1 week to put it on, plus a crane and a truck, correct? That's why I was thinking to fly it home in one piece would be faster and maybe cheaper.

            Have you ever heard of a case where a helicopter was used to lift it home?
            Read Race5's comment again.

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            • #7
              Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

              Originally posted by SkyvanDelta View Post
              To remove the wing, put it on a truck, I'd estimate is going to take 4 mechanics 1 week to remove and then 1 week to put it on, plus a crane and a truck, correct? That's why I was thinking to fly it home in one piece would be faster and maybe cheaper.

              Have you ever heard of a case where a helicopter was used to lift it home?
              I think you could truck home 50 P-51's cheaper than having 1 lifted by a sky crane...
              Reno from '99 to '22

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              • #8
                Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

                Originally posted by GRNDP51 View Post
                I think you could truck home 50 P-51's cheaper than having 1 lifted by a sky crane...
                What's the cost for a Skycrane, $2,000-4,000 per hour with a 2 hour minimum? What's the cost for 4 people for 1-2 weeks of work, $25/hour x 160-320 hours = $4,000-$8,000 + truck $500 = $4,500-$8,500. Even if the crew is partially volunteer, they could be doing other things more productive. Do you need a crane to remove a wing, if so, add another $500-1,000?

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                • #9
                  Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

                  The pics you probably have seen do not show how bad it really is, up close.
                  It is a major rebuild for it to ever be airworthy again.
                  Very doable, just not something just any shop can tackle.
                  The duration of the fire caused major heat damage, which affects the heat treatment of the alloys used in the airframe. It weakens them, and at the least will lead to major inter-granular corrosion, if those affected parts are not replaced or at least re-heat treated. And that means complete dis-assembly of the wings and fuselage. Not to mention the poor engine and prop.
                  They need all the help and support we can give to help get this one back in the air again!
                  Last edited by toldjaso; 09-29-2015, 05:15 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

                    Originally posted by toldjaso View Post
                    The pics you probably have seen do not show how bad it really is, up close.
                    It is a major rebuild for it to ever be airworthy again.
                    Very doable, just not something just any shop can tackle.
                    The duration of the fire caused major heat damage, which affects the heat treatment of the alloys used in the airframe. It weakens them, and at the least will lead to major inter-granular corrosion, if those affected parts are not replaced or at least re-heat treated. And that means complete dis-assembly of the wings and fuselage. Not to mention the poor engine and prop.
                    They need all the help and support we can give to help get this one back in the air again!
                    Where do you think Precious Metal will be rebuilt? At it's home hanger or elsewhere?

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                    • #11
                      Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

                      The Skycrane lifting capacity

                      Model S 64 E - Maximum Hook Weight 20,000 lbs (9,072 kg)
                      Model S 64 F - Maximum Hook Weight 25,000 lbs (11,340 kg)

                      These folks have the ability but are in Romania.

                      Last edited by SkyvanDelta; 09-29-2015, 05:57 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

                        Years ago a Hemet Valley TMB air tanker lost engine power and landed in the forest in Tuolumne County. One of the Chinooks CH-47's from Stockton air lifted it out and down to Columbia, then down to Stockton. So yes it can be done, but I doubt that is the cost effective way to transport Precious Metal.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

                          The wings will have to come off for the repair, so the fact that they have to remove them to move the plane from where it is sort of irrelevant.

                          What they do need is more than $16K to work with. That is all the kickstarter program as produce so far. I know they sold lots of stuff in the Pits, but they need a lot more than that. I've donated, has everyone else?

                          Will

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                          • #14
                            Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

                            Originally posted by supercub View Post
                            Years ago a Hemet Valley TMB air tanker lost engine power and landed in the forest in Tuolumne County. One of the Chinooks CH-47's from Stockton air lifted it out and down to Columbia, then down to Stockton. So yes it can be done, but I doubt that is the cost effective way to transport Precious Metal.
                            Does a pilot sit in the plane to control pitch, yaw and bank or is it done without a pilot in the rescued plane?
                            Last edited by SkyvanDelta; 09-29-2015, 06:00 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Any word on Precious Metal yet??

                              Not only is it not cost effective, it's dangerous both to the Skycrane and to PM. Once slung and airborn it will try and twist all over the place. Needs a very skilled crew familiar with lifting aircraft, not just cargo. Pilot in the aircraft? I don't know anyone willing to take that risk.
                              Also, not sure how legal it would be. I am sure you would have to avoid ANY built up areas. Heck, they had a Blackhawk go down with a mechanical in Dog Valley (near Stead) a couple years ago. They lifted it out and back to Stead with a Chinook. They closed every highway, street and dirt road it crossed over and had to avoid overflying ANY buildings.
                              I've seen the Sanders get a Sea Fury out of Stead and back to Ione by Wednesday after the races, so why the hassle and expense? It is going to be a long haul, a few days won't matter.
                              Leo Smiley - Graphics and Fine Arts
                              airplanenutleo@gmail.com
                              thetreasuredpeacock.etsy.com

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